BIANCA-fy your E61 Grouphead - Page 13

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1st-line
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#121: Post by 1st-line »

Jshot wrote:Would love to add a flow kit to my ECM Synchronika. Since the ECM kit is back ordered I stumbled upon the Lelit kit which I like even more with the wood paddle!

Does the Lelit kit work with my machine?
I will venture to say that it will as it worked on some Profitec machines. However, the lower oring for the mushroom may be needed as well as a new mushroom. The mushroom on the ECM Synchronika does not allow the paddle as it is does not have the bolt/nut on top.

When I was working with Lelit on the paddle, I, as well, really liked the wood paddle. From my testing, it gets pretty hot at the top of the grouphead. The wood diffuses that heat properly, and the wood paddle is large enough so my fingers did not get close to the grouphead. Yes, I have pretty large hands that run in my family.

Lastly, I have been running the prototype we received in March of 2018 really hard (left on 24x7), and the wood has not chipped, flaked, nor cracked.
Jim Piccinich
www.1st-line.com
1st-line Equipment, LLC

simulacrum

#122: Post by simulacrum »

My wife bought me a lovely Lelit Mara last year. I wish I could get one of these kits for it in Australia!

F1

#123: Post by F1 »

I have had this kit installed in a Profitec 700 for about a month. I have not been able to figure out how to use it since every shot results in a disaster. My Profitec has the old two piece mushroom so the kit fits like a glove, but I think something is not right. Every person that has this kit or has a Lelit Bianca is reporting a max flow rate of 6ml/s. On mine when moving the paddle all the way left almost touching the case the flow stops. That's normal, but when I open it fully I get a max flow of 10ml/s. The range between fully closed and the position where I get 6ml/s is way to small. This makes it even harder to control the pressure during extraction. No matter how surgically precise I try I cannot control the pre-infusion. Also, I have seen a few videos where the user stops the pressure at 4bars for example for several seconds. On mine moving the paddle by a hair to the right from fully closed makes the pressure climb rapidly I can't hold any pre-infusion pressure on mine no matter grind the size. Even if the paddle is positioned to give a trickle of water the pressure keeps on rising and if I close it drops. I talked to one of the guys who posted a few videos of his Bianca and he was so incredibly helpful, but even after trying his recommendations nothing really helped. I am at a loss.

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mohninme
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#124: Post by mohninme » replying to F1 »

True many have stated aprox 6ml/s at the right position. Is it possible that your OPV is set higher and you are running at a higher pressure pre valve? More flow at the same valve position would result. I would suggest setting it at 10 bar. Also the physical dimensions of your machine or the offset of the e61 away from the case could result in more paddle/valve rotation than others. Thinking out loud here:)
Michael

F1

#125: Post by F1 » replying to mohninme »

I am currently at 8bar measured on the machine's own pressure gauge and the grouphead mounted gauge. I did try 10bar suggested by a Bianca owner who recommended that to me from his youtube videos, but that didn't help. As far as the physical dimensions I really don't see that as factor in this case since the group is mounted directly to a flat surface just like a Bianca. I am thinking that maybe the machining during production of the gecleur and/or the needle were wrong on my kit batch. I really don't know.

brentvdg

#126: Post by brentvdg »

1st-line wrote:It should. However, I can not guarantee as I just returned from a weeklong trip to San Diego with limited access to the internet. Sorry I have to say 'should' as I have not tried it on the Cuadra. unfortunately, at this time, we do not have the time to do it due to vacations, etc.
Hi Jim, Just wondering if you've had an opportunity to try it on a Cuadra yet. If you were me, what would you recommend buying (as far as optional accessories go), to install this on the V1 Cuadra (purchase date of December 2011).

Thanks,
Brent

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mohninme
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#127: Post by mohninme »

F1 wrote:I am currently at 8bar measured on the machine's own pressure gauge and the grouphead mounted gauge. I did try 10bar suggested by a Bianca owner who recommended that to me from his youtube videos, but that didn't help. As far as the physical dimensions I really don't see that as factor in this case since the group is mounted directly to a flat surface just like a Bianca. I am thinking that maybe the machining during production of the gecleur and/or the needle were wrong on my kit batch. I really don't know.
If you have access to a vernier caliper, I would be happy to do a comparison with you on the valve, gicleur etc. Just PM me directly.
Michael

Nunas
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#128: Post by Nunas »

The range between fully closed and the position where I get 6ml/s is way to small. This makes it even harder to control the pressure during extraction. No matter how surgically precise I try I cannot control the pre-infusion. Also, I have seen a few videos where the user stops the pressure at 4bars for example for several seconds.
Wally, If I understand correctly, you put the Bianca kit on a Profitec. Did you change the jet, or just add the needle valve? Your situation sounds like a mismatch between the jet and the needle valve. The ECM/Profitec kit comes with a complete new mushroom assembly. So, the valve and the jet are matched to work together.
On mine moving the paddle by a hair to the right from fully closed makes the pressure climb rapidly I can't hold any pre-infusion pressure on mine no matter grind the size.
With a proper valve and jet, this may be a misunderstanding of how the valve works. If you use a blind basket and crack the valve open just a bit, the pressure will gradually rise. Conversely, running the valve wide open with no basket will not result in any measurable pressure at the puck. Thus, the pressure you get will depend on the grind. The valve does not control pressure; that's just a byproduct of controlling flow.

F1

#129: Post by F1 »

Nunas wrote:Wally, If I understand correctly, you put the Bianca kit on a Profitec. Did you change the jet, or just add the needle valve? Your situation sounds like a mismatch between the jet and the needle valve. The ECM/Profitec kit comes with a complete new mushroom assembly. So, the valve and the jet are matched to work together.

With a proper valve and jet, this may be a misunderstanding of how the valve works. If you use a blind basket and crack the valve open just a bit, the pressure will gradually rise. Conversely, running the valve wide open with no basket will not result in any measurable pressure at the puck. Thus, the pressure you get will depend on the grind. The valve does not control pressure; that's just a byproduct of controlling flow.
I did installed the jet that came with the kit. The Bianca kit comes with two jets(an extra spare) and I tried both and the gave me the same flow.

I know the pressure will climb nonstop with a blind basket , but what I am trying to understand is how are people able to stop the pre-infusion at 3 or 4 bars(on group mounted gauge) for several seconds like I have seen in a few videos. It doesn't look like they are fully closing the valve to make it stop, but leaving it a hair open. Maybe I am missing something.

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mohninme
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#130: Post by mohninme » replying to F1 »

Hi Wally

It depends on the resistance of the puck. I will adjust open the valve to initially saturate the puck at say 3-4 bars but typically I need to close it right off for a short time or throttle it very near closed to maintain the desired PI pressure. Once I am satisfied with the PI duration, I then open the valve to achieve an 8 or 9 bar extraction. During PI I am working with a closed or maybe 5-10 degree rotation to achieve the desired PI pressure.
Michael