And copper? Really? Oh for pete's sake....'Tis a funny thing sometimes what people worry about.

Yeah, it's hilarious: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10383875
https://www.doh.wa.gov/portals/1/Docume ... 31-178.pdf
I suppose the Romans laughed at all the lead in their drinking cups and ended up with Caligula, too. For Pete's sake, I am so sick of people's blatant disregard for health concerns just because they're used to something. People used to think smoking was good for you, too.

LewBK wrote:True, but my point is why not get it right in the first place? Even if one doesn't care about toxicity issues, the tendency for copper and brass to stain and corrode is well known.

LewBK wrote:Yeah, it's hilarious: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10383875
https://www.doh.wa.gov/portals/1/Docume ... 31-178.pdf
I suppose the Romans laughed at all the lead in their drinking cups and ended up with Caligula, too. For Pete's sake, I am so sick of people's blatant disregard for health concerns just because they're used to something. People used to think smoking was good for you, too.

Seems like good topics for a new thread as it has nothing to do with user experience, especially not user experience with the CT2 which solves the issues you are upset about.

LewBK wrote:Yeah, it's hilarious: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10383875
https://www.doh.wa.gov/portals/1/Docume ... 31-178.pdf
I suppose the Romans laughed at all the lead in their drinking cups and ended up with Caligula, too. For Pete's sake, I am so sick of people's blatant disregard for health concerns just because they're used to something. People used to think smoking was good for you, too.

Then please explain to me why the largest part of the world uses E61's which are made of copper tubes and a big brass grouphead. And the other part of the espresso machines also all contain a lot of brass and copper. And yes there's a chrome fininsh on it which tend to come of after several years. So your tellng us here that we should all stop using espresso machines because espresso machines are bad for our health?

Then please explain to me why the largest part of the world uses E61's which are made of copper tubes and a big brass grouphead. And the other part of the espresso machines also all contain a lot of brass and copper. And yes there's a chrome fininsh on it which tend to come of after several years. So your tellng us here that we should all stop using espresso machines because espresso machines are bad for our health?

I'm saying that companies sell products that are bad for people's health all the time and consumers have a right to request products with healthier designs. Just because it was standard practice prior to the 1980s for a Cremina to have asbestos in its design doesn't mean it was good for you. Companies have used known carcinogens in their products frequently in the past and still do today. Read this regarding espresso machines and brass: https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/blog/ ... e-healthy/

This is also a thorough analysis of the subject and the challenges lead presents and the progress that's been made so far, which is promising but wouldn't have occurred without consumer and regulator pushback: https://dailycoffeenews.com/2019/10/29/ ... -machines/

There are lengthy review threads on Amazon.com for instance complaining of electric kettles that use plastic inside of the kettle so consumers can enjoy the toxic phthalates they leach into the hot water free of charge. Companies didn't care until enough consumers complained about it and now there are a handful of kettles that don't have any plastic inside of them and they are extraordinarily popular. I am saying that for a premium product that costs thousands of dollars like a bespoke manual espresso machine the toxicity and durability of its parts should be an important consideration before even launching the product, not an afterthought for a later iteration of that product.

I know what you're trying to bring to the table but for me humans have gone too far in the hype "bad for us". If everything we know now is as true as some state than how come that there are still humans on this earth? With the knowledge of today we could say that no humans could have survived with how they lived say 50-500 years ago. That's why I do read the articles but am always a bit sceptic about the conclusion being that firm.

Judging from a quick read of the last two pages, it's time to move on. From the Guidelines for productive online discussion:

Encourage positive, shared discourse. Be mindful of participant reactions and consider the tone of your replies; ideally they should encourage positive discourse. Conversely, don't be disruptive by dominating the conversation. Dogmatic or repetitive replies are rarely welcome.

Thanks.

Thanks Dan for keeping the user experience thread about user experience.
(And there's always some hope folks will go back and clean up the noise they created....but if they were to do that they likely wouldn't create it in the first place.)

As a user I couldn't be happier with the CT2. Warm up time, ease of clean up, the lever, all great. And my wife much prefers the CT2's smaller size and looks relative to my Conti Prestina. Thanks Wouter!

I've been eyeing the Strietman for a couple of weeks now. How hard is it to dial in and get consistent shots without a spring lever and pressure profiler? I'd be moving up from a gaggia classic, so it would be completely new territory for me. Thanks.

The Strietman is probably the easiest lever to use/dial-in. But you should know first if you do like levers .

The Strietman is probably the easiest lever to use/dial-in.

Why in your view is it the easiest lever to dial in? What makes it easier than a Cremina, Londinium, Caravel or Cafelat Robot? Also, do you have any commercial relationship with Strietman? If so, could you please disclose that? Thanks.