User Experience: Flair Espresso Manual Lever - Page 91

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
dmw010

Postby dmw010 » Mar 27, 2019, 11:33 pm

melkenshawn wrote:Do you think a lido 2 would be sufficient?

I think people may still use the Lido 2 for espresso, but it wasn't designed for it. Perhaps someone else can tell you how well it works. The Lido E is the espresso version of the Lido, with finer adjustment than the Lido 2. If you want to make espresso, my advice is to get a grinder designed for espresso. Search the Grinder forum, there are discussions about pretty much every hand grinder on the market.

vit

Postby vit » Mar 28, 2019, 2:31 am

I'm using Lido 3 (similar construction like Lido 2, different burrs) and Feldgrind. Both work reasonably well, though not ideal. Problem with Lido 2/3 is adjusting mechanism which has too much tolerance/free play in the threads, which can be solved by "teflon tape" tweak

melkenshawn

Postby melkenshawn » replying to vit » Mar 28, 2019, 7:49 am

Ok great probably wouldn't be getting that then. So just wondering for you guys, without the pressure gauge, how would you know if you're pulling at the right pressure?

dmw010

Postby dmw010 » replying to melkenshawn » Mar 28, 2019, 10:06 am

Some people use a bathroom scale (a couple of people have posted charts in this thread equating scale weights to force measurements), but most people just go by feel and taste. It shouldn't require a huge amount of force, but firm pressure that results in a shot taking about 30 seconds to pull. In fact, the Flair lever arm has a relief area that is designed to break if you put too much force on the lever, though I haven't heard of that happening to anyone.

gimpy

Postby gimpy » Mar 28, 2019, 11:27 pm

I think the instructions give an approximate number of seconds that the pull should take. Don't remember exactly how many - - 20? 40?. Can't remember. Sorry.

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Denis

Postby Denis » Mar 29, 2019, 1:45 am

9 bar is really easy achievable with Flair. 9 bar is close to 18 kg tamping force So if you want, the medium tamp force should be applied to the lever of Flair. This can be achieved with 1 hand slowly pressing down so you have a constant flow (no dripping).

With really light roasts and a uniform grinder I can pull decent shots, but nowhere near my 58 mm espresso machine. The flair 40 mm diameter basket and the small perforated area surface makes you grind coarser than normal. This means you are not getting a full range of flavors in the cup.

If you want to do an OK espresso w/o making it a big complex process than yes, Flair is good. If you want to squeeze everything out of a coffee to take it to the limit, then no. The machine needs another basket and I would suggest picking a 58 mm group/basket.

Right now my espresso machine is in a rebuilding stage (implementing a lot of electronics and sensors, so I am left with either v60 or Flair). The coffee I have now is way too good to be wasted on Flair, so I am using rarely V60. The coffee is roasted by Gringo Roasters Norway.

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vit

Postby vit » Mar 29, 2019, 2:36 am

Well, recently, espressos on my roaster's LM are not any better than on my Flair with the same beans ...
Original basket has partially perforated bottom, holes are somewhere around 0.4 mm in diameter, bottomless basket has evenly perforated bottom with holes around 0.25mm
However, it's an equivalent of the single dose on LM
For lightest roasts I'm using near turkish grind, perfecftly usable for turkish coffee ...
Force I'm using is usually 12-16kg, as 9bar is somewhere between 15 and 16kg when the lever is horizontal according to my measurements

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Denis

Postby Denis » Mar 29, 2019, 4:38 am

I will cut a sieve (but something with more perforated area than a vst/ims basket at a laser cut service and I will replace the 40 mm sieve in the original group head on my Flair. Still, after doing that I believe it will not come to 58 mm results.

8-10g of coffee doesn't let you do things that you do with 18-20g in therms of pressure forces (ramps and drops).

For the money, usability, as a traveling or a 2nd espresso machine, or for someone that drinks espresso from time to time it's a good purchase.


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vit

Postby vit » Mar 29, 2019, 4:46 am

Denis wrote:8-10g of coffee doesn't let you do things that you do with 18-20g in therms of pressure forces (ramps and drops).


Surely it's not equal as the puck diameter is different, so is the influence of the edge. But if the puck thickness is the same in case of 40 and 58mm diameter, what are the differences in terms of pressure ramps and drops ?
Bigger difference is surely the temperature drop which is much bigger in machines like this (something like 2-3°C during the pull). And probably the shape of the holes in basket

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drgary
Team HB

Postby drgary » Apr 17, 2019, 12:38 am

From here, a conversation started about the Flair Signature PRO. I've split those posts off to its own thread. The timing is fortunate as we are just posting the Flair Signature PRO review. Here are the links.

User Experience: Flair Signature PRO

Flair Signature PRO Review
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!