User Experience: Flair Espresso Manual Lever - Page 91

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
melkenshawn
Posts: 6
Joined: 5 years ago

#901: Post by melkenshawn »

vit wrote:I'm using Lido 3 (similar construction like Lido 2, different burrs) and Feldgrind. Both work reasonably well, though not ideal. Problem with Lido 2/3 is adjusting mechanism which has too much tolerance/free play in the threads, which can be solved by "teflon tape" tweak
Ok great probably wouldn't be getting that then. So just wondering for you guys, without the pressure gauge, how would you know if you're pulling at the right pressure?

dmw010
Posts: 315
Joined: 14 years ago

#902: Post by dmw010 replying to melkenshawn »

Some people use a bathroom scale (a couple of people have posted charts in this thread equating scale weights to force measurements), but most people just go by feel and taste. It shouldn't require a huge amount of force, but firm pressure that results in a shot taking about 30 seconds to pull. In fact, the Flair lever arm has a relief area that is designed to break if you put too much force on the lever, though I haven't heard of that happening to anyone.

gimpy
Posts: 249
Joined: 10 years ago

#903: Post by gimpy »

I think the instructions give an approximate number of seconds that the pull should take. Don't remember exactly how many - - 20? 40?. Can't remember. Sorry.

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Denis
Posts: 365
Joined: 6 years ago

#904: Post by Denis »

9 bar is really easy achievable with Flair. 9 bar is close to 18 kg tamping force So if you want, the medium tamp force should be applied to the lever of Flair. This can be achieved with 1 hand slowly pressing down so you have a constant flow (no dripping).

With really light roasts and a uniform grinder I can pull decent shots, but nowhere near my 58 mm espresso machine. The flair 40 mm diameter basket and the small perforated area surface makes you grind coarser than normal. This means you are not getting a full range of flavors in the cup.

If you want to do an OK espresso w/o making it a big complex process than yes, Flair is good. If you want to squeeze everything out of a coffee to take it to the limit, then no. The machine needs another basket and I would suggest picking a 58 mm group/basket.

Right now my espresso machine is in a rebuilding stage (implementing a lot of electronics and sensors, so I am left with either v60 or Flair). The coffee I have now is way too good to be wasted on Flair, so I am using rarely V60. The coffee is roasted by Gringo Roasters Norway.


vit
Posts: 980
Joined: 9 years ago

#905: Post by vit »

Well, recently, espressos on my roaster's LM are not any better than on my Flair with the same beans ...
Original basket has partially perforated bottom, holes are somewhere around 0.4 mm in diameter, bottomless basket has evenly perforated bottom with holes around 0.25mm
However, it's an equivalent of the single dose on LM
For lightest roasts I'm using near turkish grind, perfecftly usable for turkish coffee ...
Force I'm using is usually 12-16kg, as 9bar is somewhere between 15 and 16kg when the lever is horizontal according to my measurements

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Denis
Posts: 365
Joined: 6 years ago

#906: Post by Denis »

I will cut a sieve (but something with more perforated area than a vst/ims basket at a laser cut service and I will replace the 40 mm sieve in the original group head on my Flair. Still, after doing that I believe it will not come to 58 mm results.

8-10g of coffee doesn't let you do things that you do with 18-20g in therms of pressure forces (ramps and drops).

For the money, usability, as a traveling or a 2nd espresso machine, or for someone that drinks espresso from time to time it's a good purchase.



vit
Posts: 980
Joined: 9 years ago

#907: Post by vit »

Denis wrote: 8-10g of coffee doesn't let you do things that you do with 18-20g in therms of pressure forces (ramps and drops).
Surely it's not equal as the puck diameter is different, so is the influence of the edge. But if the puck thickness is the same in case of 40 and 58mm diameter, what are the differences in terms of pressure ramps and drops ?
Bigger difference is surely the temperature drop which is much bigger in machines like this (something like 2-3°C during the pull). And probably the shape of the holes in basket

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drgary
Team HB
Posts: 14348
Joined: 14 years ago

#908: Post by drgary »

From here, a conversation started about the Flair Signature PRO. I've split those posts off to its own thread. The timing is fortunate as we are just posting the Flair Signature PRO review. Here are the links.

User Experience: Flair Signature PRO

Flair Signature PRO Review
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

schneckerl
Posts: 36
Joined: 8 years ago

#909: Post by schneckerl »

Hi. Haven't been here in a while. Which mustn't be a bad thing. Being a Flair user/lover for more than 1,5 years and enjoying at least 1 espresso every single day, I guess the "never change a winning team"-approach combined with general lack of time made me forget about those forums i spent lots of time with/in. Moreover - is that allowed to say here? - "thanks" to my frequent presence in these very forums I was one of the "lucky" ones who could buy a Cafelat Robot at the very beginning. "lucky", because it never really worked, there must be something wrong with it (the pressure tube connecting the gauge to the brew chamber, which gets stuck between the lever arms no matter what I do), and after being in touch with the initially helpful team, aforementionned lack of time and "winning team" made the Robot an overpriced eyecatcher at home.

Why am I here? I saw the new PRO version on Instagram every now and then. And was asking myself whether i should get one. As I said, my 1st gen Flair classic (in combo with my Lido3) still makes awesome espresso. True, the piston looks a bit used (scratches on all sides) and i don't want to start thinking about what hides underneath the sprout (no easy to clean/bottomless back then). Also, as I'm living overseas, getting ahold of certain accessoires isn't that easy, ie impossible (new PF base for my 1st gen Flair Classic for example.. Nowhere to be found in Europe!).

Long story short: should I go through the "hassle" (import taxes..) of having some accessoires shipped to Europe from the US (extra brew head+bottomless PF-set, because that would include also a new piston and shower screen apart from the PF; temperature strip (I just discovered that one, and while not crucial, it seems to be a non-brainer given the price and ease of use); PF base; maybe 2 O-rings while I'm at it) or just get a new Flair Pro? I don't travel much, but spend about 3 months a year in another country, the Flair always accompanies me, and the weight is just fine.

As I said, I am happy with the set-up and results as they are and my appetite for "experiments" greatly decreaed after the Cafelat Robot.

Thanks and big kudos to the Flair Team! I have already recommended the device to several people, almost all of them were perplexed (in the sense of amazed), and almost everybody loves the shots i am pulling.

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Paul_Pratt
Posts: 1467
Joined: 19 years ago

#910: Post by Paul_Pratt »

schneckerl wrote:thanks" to my frequent presence in these very forums I was one of the "lucky" ones who could buy a Cafelat Robot at the very beginning. "lucky", because it never really worked,
I am unable to find any correspondence with you. As far as I know all machines work correctly and if you have a Robot shaped paperweight then you really should email us.

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