Truth be told: Elektra Microcasa a Leva can be set to produce amazing espresso or perfect dry steam, not both - Page 2

April 19th, 2021, 12:59 pm

boren wrote:@baldheadracing, I'm using the MCaL since 2010, and for most of this time had it set to the default 1.0 bar pressure. I just accepted the inconsistent espresso and blamed it on luck. Reducing pressure to 0.7 bar was an eye opener though. The quality, consistency and repeatability of the espresso are all very significantly improved. Just make sure to remove the teflon heat breaker if you use one, and let it warm up for at least 25 minutes. Or don't do it if you want to continue to be at peace with your machine

I'm at peace with my machine and its limitations

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My MCaL has a few minor modifications and I restrict how I use the machine. For example, in its current configuration, my MCaL will be close to too hot at 25 minutes for even the light roasts that I pull on the MCaL. I have to pull my two (and only two) shots between 17 and 25 minutes after cold start. I'm not implying that will work for you, but rather the reverse - machines can be used differently and behave differently (due to different doses, different coffees, different roast levels, different baskets, different shower screens, different springs, different portafilters, different pressurestat deadbands, different temperature surfing procedures, etc.)

I used to have a Teflon heatbreak that used silicone for a gasket. With the heatbreak and associated stainless steel hardware, the machine was walk-up-and-pull one shot all day long (at 93.5C average puck temperature). However, it took about 90 minutes from cold start to get to steady-state idle, and I couldn't pull two shots in a row.

FWIW, I'd suggest testing the steam of any double-boiler that you consider. Out of the machines that I've used, the Micro Casa's, both Leva and Semiautomatica, have the driest steam for their boiler size.

#12: Post by **truemagellen** » April 19th, 2021, 1:44 pm

This is the nature of a small dipper machine. To lament it is fine but the design predates most of us and a cooling ritual is very common for these units.

I believe better than teflon for a heatbreak would be stainless, I've mentioned it before and I'm the one who hasn't done a thing about it, so perhaps now is the time.

The elektra group is great, so simple...the only way to improve it is a thermosyphon elektra group, they are out there and exist in non elektra machines just not currently sold (not since the 80s I think

The only way to convert this into a thermosyphon unit is to build a thermosyphon heat break setup that feeds from dipper and loops up to a T on the steam wand valve or somewhere else. A real frankenstein.

#13: Post by **nirdvorai** » April 19th, 2021, 2:38 pm

truemagellen wrote:The elektra group is great, so simple...the only way to improve it is a thermosyphon elektra group, they are out there and exist in non elektra machines just not currently sold (not since the 80s I think

I second that. This is the beauty of the Club machines out there. They have a nice combo of grouphead, thermosyphon and (relatively) large boiler in a compact setting.
You can run the machine at 1.5bar and have a strong sufficient steam for milk while maintain steady temp for espresso.

April 19th, 2021, 3:00 pm

Oh my I have an email due to you about this

April 19th, 2021, 4:49 pm

I'm afraid that Elvis has left the building

April 20th, 2021, 9:03 pm

truemagellen wrote:This is the nature of a small dipper machine. To lament it is fine but the design predates most of us and a cooling ritual is very common for these units.

A previous version of the La Pavoni Europiccola actually had a steam mode switch. Unfortunately it was replaced by a single mode version that, like the MCaL, relies on the colder group (and a lot of experimenting / luck) to get the shot to the right temperature.

I believe better than teflon for a heatbreak would be stainless, I've mentioned it before and I'm the one who hasn't done a thing about it, so perhaps now is the time.

You mean stainless steel? Wouldn't using metal defeat the purpose of isolating heat from the boiler?

The elektra group is great, so simple...the only way to improve it is a thermosyphon elektra group, they are out there and exist in non elektra machines just not currently sold (not since the 80s I think

What would be the temperature of the group with a thermosyphon? If it's the same as the boiler, the espresso would be too hot at the default pressure of 1.1 bar (which is practically boiling). If it's supposed to be colder, what would chill it to the right temperature?

#17: Post by **truemagellen** » April 20th, 2021, 10:57 pm

Stainless steel is not great at transmitting heat. The boiler and group are chromed brass so they do....so by limiting heat transfer the group stays cooler to reduce the temp of incoming boiler water.

A thermosyohon is a type of heat exchanger , but think of it simply as a straw in the boiler hot water is pushed into, then it exits the boiler cooling down on the way to the group then returns cooler back to the boiler. This is a way to isolate heat from the group and reduce temps of water for the shot at the water is drawn from the loop for the shot instead of direct from the boiler.

#18: Post by **peacecup** » April 21st, 2021, 4:01 pm

The Sama/Ponte Vecchio Lusso is a thermosyphon de-coupled group design. The group is significantly cooler than the boiler and it can brew and steam at proper temperatures. It has the same group build as the Export, which is a simple dipper like the Elektra, with direct group-boiler connection. The Export will overheat just like the Elektra, long before the Lusso.

This has always been the tradeoff with home levers, which is why open boilers are so desirable for pulling straight shots.

#19: Post by **drgary** » April 21st, 2021, 9:26 pm

My Elektra MCAL 1989 was perfectly tuned for walk up and pull with a PTFE heat break gasket. Steaming wasn't a problem nor was warmup. If warmup were slow I would do a quick heating flush. It's been awhile since I've played with one, but I did some temperature surfing in my review. No problems with La Pavoni or Olympia Express Cremina either, all equipped with group temp sensors. I don't expect commercial steaming and can easily produce microfoam. Is the problem with the machines or with not applying known temp surfing techniques? I regret selling my MCAL.

April 21st, 2021, 11:09 pm

The problem is that the heat break doesn't actually solve the problem. As long as the group and boiler have a different temperature, eventually they'll "want" to catch up. From my experience the heat break just slows this down. 1 hour after you turn the machine on the group doesn't have the same temperature it did 12 minutes after, and this is easy to verify with temperature strips and by tasting the coffee. The group temperature also doesn't stay constant after each shot. Every time water that's hotter than it come through, it gets hotter. And if the group temperature is different at different points of time, so is the espresso in the cup.

The only way to get consistent results is to wait for the boiler and group to both be at the same optimal temperature for espresso and only then start making espresso. Most people prefer their espresso brewed at 90-95c (about 0.7 to 0.8 bar), certainly not 102-103c (1.1 bar). To get this consistency the boiler needs to have lower pressure than the default, which in turn means steaming is worse or is no longer possible, depending on how much you reduce the pressure.