I am about to pull the trigger on a Bosco Sorrento. Looking for folks here who have or have used this machine to poke holes in it for me.

My situation: Multiple decade espresso machine owner (and wrench). Counter space is no issue, plumbing and drain are already in place with my current set-up. My in-line has BWT filter/conditioners to manage softening and a pressure regulator to tune pre-infusion in my current set-up. Current machine is on a timer for 2 hour morning warm-up. This is for home use, we make between 5-7 drinks a day, a combination of espresso, milk and water based drinks.

What I am seeking: A spring lever machine first and foremost. Low technology. Silent, or nearly so, other than a Pstat firing occasionally. Pump-less or the ability to turn any pump off completely. I need no reservoir, I'd rather give that space to a larger boiler... speaking of, a decent size boiler for stability. A machine built solidly enough to not be flexing and moving under lever operation. Budget is more 5k than 10k. I'd love to consider Lapera but cost and timing are a challenge.

What I'm intending to buy: As of now I'm planning on the Bosco Sorrento Single group. I've chatted with Roberta on the new "mini" but I like the idea of having a steam activated cup warmer AND without any in the wild I'm concerned about frame construction/flex or machine movement under lever operation. So my intent is to go with the classic single group since counter space is not a challenge and it's a known quantity. Other than adding a boiler drain valve, steam cup warmer and a bottomless PF, I don't plan on other mods for now. No intention on PID. I run one on my machine now but don't see the alignment/need for this type of machine set-up.

Positives:

• Espresso quality

• Solidly and heavily built and constructed

• Massive boiler for a single group

• Minimal and simple electronics

• Straight forward maintenance and repair

• Heritage, full stop

• Small family operation

• Value: yes this is expensive as compared to a high production prosumer machine, but cheap considering it is commercial build quality and low volume production.

Negatives:

• Rough and ready: From the tolerances I see in the case, fit and finish of the sheet metal, design and construction of the frame, quality of brazing on the boiler... I know this is likely heretical, and will absolutely bend some folks sidewise but I don't see a high level of craftsmanship with the execution of this machine build. I have spent a lifetime in design and building product, I've lived and executed the processes Bosco uses to produce their machines, it's not an indictment but just more of a reality I see in the details of the inside and outside of these units. Nickel plating a boiler does make it shiny, it doesn't however change the craftsmanship of the build. This isn't about hand crafting in a workshop vs CNC production machinery. Hand crafting & building can be done at a very high tolerance with the right skill, equipment and appropriate jigs & fixtures. All this being said, I don't find fault in this aspect when combined with build quality and construction they are offering at the price/value

• No other negative's I can find in terms of my situation honestly. Looking forward to hearing honest feedback from this community

Feedback: Why should I head this route and why should I not? What else is out there I should put into consideration... Londinium is interesting but a real small boiler. Lapera looks magical but may be made of fairy dust in terms of timing and is likely way out of my price range. The Prosumer machines like profitec and Izzo Alex don't even seem like they belong in the same church much less pew. Anything I am missing or not considering? Who loves their Bosco and who has any regret?

If construction is important and you want a steel box machine I' ld go Izzo Pompei.
Would I want a one group commercial machine this would be my pick now:

https://www.google.com/search?q=la+san+ ... lnspr=W10=
There are many out there.
Sorrento is great too .Never heard anything negative about it.

I had a steam-operated cup warmer on a Simonelli and I ended up not liking it. While it works great if you have the full top of the machine covered in cold cups that you need to heat up - that situation may never arise in home use.
- if the full top isn't covered in cups, then steam (and condensed steam, i.e., water) can go everywhere;
- a typical home user is going to have the cups on the top already, and passive warmup for the period that the machine is getting up to temperature seems more than enough;
- if one needs to quickly heat up a few cups, then the fastest way is filling the cold cups from the hot water wand and then dumping the water into the (drained) drip tray.
Bosco also offers water-heated and electrically-heated cup warmers (and a splash guard), so there are options. I also like that custom finishes and hand-hammered copper are available ... and of course the little reservoir behind the group is - to me - a big part of what sets Bosco apart.

For machines, have you considered a fully-restored vintage machine? For example, Maltoni has listed a 1950's FAEMA Mercurio and a FAEMA Milano recently on Instagram.

Salvatore has a few different lever models and can custom build to whatever you want; for example, LSM or modern lever group. He might be worth looking into as you are in the USA.

For Lapera, I was down at the shop on Saturday and production is underway for the next release. "Presales of the third edition of Lapera DS ... will open sometime in the first half of 2023 for shipping before the end of the year." I didn't ask about pricing. The previous edition ended up a bit under $10k USD. Hard to predict what the new price will be as exchange rates have been bouncing around.

I don't think that it is possible to make a wrong choice .

Thanks for the detailed tips and feedback! I'll definitely keep those options under consideration.

As for the steam heating, this is something I have not had before so appreciate your feedback on not liking it. I've always relied on leaving the number and type of cups intended for morning consumption on the machine the night before as well as flushing with hot water for moments that are not planned for in advance. I don't keep cups on my machine other than that, just a dust collector that makes cleaning more of a nuisance. This add for the Bosco isn't a high dollar item but it's also not free so if it's not useful it's just going to be something else to maintain. Question on your NS steam heating dislike: Was the steam going "everywhere" a problem because it was being directed toward the barista, walls, cabinets? My machine location has nothing above it, just open air, so if exhaust up was the issue in your case, that may not factor in for me.

poison wrote:The Londinium boiler size is a non-issue for home use, particularly considering lever's are mostly a bit slower anyway (you can't whip the PF off immediately on most). The 2.3l boiler is more than sufficient for home use and beyond, with the benefit of lower power usage. Why heat a 6l boiler if 2.3l will achieve the same goal?

I had an E61 HX with a 2.6l boiler before, and I successfully served parties of 40-60 people many, many times. I'd be surprised if 2.3l was an issue for you. There's no flex in my Londinium, something that immediately caught my eye on the Strega.

I call this flex: Strega flexes too indeed.My Lambro flexes a bit too.No problem.

OK, now you're gonna make me set up a cam like that to see. In usage, I haven't seen it, but I'm not looking at it from the side.

No regrets here after owning one for 8 years. I do think that the cup warmer is a waste of money for your use. The machine requires a 1.5 hour warm up to be temp stable so you will either leave it on 24/7 or run it on a timer. Either way your cups will be warm by the time you start pulling shots. I'm not a hot cup fan but if you want your cup hot use the hot water wand.

I owned a Sorrento. The pleasure from owning an authentic Italian spring lever machine was immense! The only issue for me, was it made average quality coffee. The most important part of any coffee machine is the group. The Fiorenzato group that is so often referred to as the Bosco group was fine, but in this modern age of electronics and trickery (nearly always based on the more expensive LSM group) you have to ask yourself exactly what you want from your next machine.
I am biased of course and happy to say that. I have had a Strega, Sorrento and 4 or 5 Londinium's but none of them can come anywhere near the shot quality of the ACS Evo Leva that I have owned since June 2021. It is as we would say in the UK, as versatile as Carnation Milk! By that I mean the 3 pid's allow total control over the group temperature and both steam and brew boilers. Yes there are other machines which offer the same and I would urge you to consider these new breed machines, unless you specifically want an older style machine.
Good luck with whatever you do!

CaptainAhab wrote:Thanks for the detailed tips and feedback! I'll definitely keep those options under consideration.

As for the steam heating, this is something I have not had before so appreciate your feedback on not liking it. I've always relied on leaving the number and type of cups intended for morning consumption on the machine the night before as well as flushing with hot water for moments that are not planned for in advance. I don't keep cups on my machine other than that, just a dust collector that makes cleaning more of a nuisance. This add for the Bosco isn't a high dollar item but it's also not free so if it's not useful it's just going to be something else to maintain. Question on your NS steam heating dislike: Was the steam going "everywhere" a problem because it was being directed toward the barista, walls, cabinets? My machine location has nothing above it, just open air, so if exhaust up was the issue in your case, that may not factor in for me.

I would suggest asking Bosco for pics of how they set the cup warmer up for the one-group.

Mine was like this one - this pic is from another machine, found at: https://www.ebay.com/itm/173937159579

The actual cup warming tray isn't shown - it would be above the assembly shown. The copper pipe comes off the top of the boiler. There are holes punched in it throughout its length, kind of like those soaker garden hoses. Steam blasts through those holes, warming all of the (not shown) cup warmer tray from underneath. Any steam that condenses on the underside of the (not shown) cup warmer tray falls mostly on the tray shown, and drains through the hole in the corner to the drip tray. Any steam that flows upwards through the holes/slots in the (not shown) cup warmer tray is caught by cups if the tray is covered in cups, or goes straight upwards. The spectacle of a "smoking machine" was quite impressive on the Simonelli (2 group) but was a bit much for the small room that the machine was in. Sounds like it won't be a factor for you.