Talk me out of a Bosco Sorrento - Page 2

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espressotime

#11: Post by espressotime »

Each espressomaker I' ve owned was able to heat the cups fast and hot long before I was able to make a first shot jusg by the heat of the boiler.Why would anybody want an extra cupheater?

Amberale

#12: Post by Amberale »

Personally I am shooting for an ACS Vostok but it does have a rotary pump.

How about a Bosco Mini?

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spressomon

#13: Post by spressomon »

Nothing against the Bosco but have you considered the Lapera? Obviously, your timeline will need to be stretched for the Lapera and although I have not used one there are a couple folks on HB who own one and I think 'its all that'. And, not as analog as the Sorrento...
No Espresso = Depresso

coyote-1

#14: Post by coyote-1 »

espressotime wrote:If construction is important and you want a steel box machine I' ld go Izzo Pompei.
I'm convinced! Gonna order it right now; look at that low price!



:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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CaptainAhab (original poster)

#15: Post by CaptainAhab (original poster) »

Sure I have considered Lapera. I've followed Thomas's build from day one, occasionally dabbing drool from the corner of my mouth. Yes it has more technology than my current direction but leveraged appropriately IMO. I also do not have $10k to drop on this investment and while I recognize the 23 build pricing isn't released yet, I don't think its going down from the 8888 it started at. As mentioned in the original post, I'm trying to hold budget closer to $5k than $10K.
ribbon of darkness over me

szephyr

#16: Post by szephyr »

You mentioned low technology and pumpless. I have the Izzo Valexia Leva, which ticks both boxes. Aside from the PID, there is really no bells and whistles to it. Rather, it is a very stable, plumb-in only beast of a machine which makes superb espesso and is gorgeous to look at to boot (in this dept I think it most definitely has the Bosco beaten, as I find the Bosco visually rather uninspiring.




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drgary
Team HB

#17: Post by drgary »

Talk you out of a Bosco Sorrento? Nope.

Does it make poor quality shots? I'm skeptical because I remember that years ago Doug and Barb of Orphan Espresso sold Bosco when they were still in the lever machine business. They loved vintage Faema levers and they also were dealers for Olympia Express, and they said that Bosco was special, that the shots were a step above.

Also fellow Team HB member Ryan Lee (Iamoiman) started his commercial lever journey with owning a Bosco. He has since restored many vintage levers. I've never seen him complain about the Bosco.

Will a traditionally designed commercial lever deliver the best quality shots on the boundary of ultra-light roasts? If that were my taste, it would be a question. Maybe it can. But it's not my taste preference, and I'm happy to try such coffees via other brewing methods.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

Primacog

#18: Post by Primacog »

Please allow me to take up the challenge of persuading the OP not to buy the bosco! :D

I am not sure why the OP is dismissing the izzo alex and profitec pro 800 as prosumer. Both have essentially the same tech base as the bosco with significantly better fit and finish than the level of quality the OP himself describes that the bosco suffers from (I have never seen a bosco before physically so I don't have personal knowledge as to whether they are as rough as described - I am just going on the description of the OP himself).

The izzo alex in particular has exactly the same boiler and internal components and grouphead as the venerable izzo pompei with a smaller footprint. Actually the pompei would be perfect for what the OP describes as being desired - it is massive, structurally it is a rock. I owned a single group pompei for many years and I had never noticed it to flex noticeably when I pulled the lever. It never failed me and qwas totally reliable having not even a PID. Huge 5 litre copper boiler, incredible steaming performance. Stainless Steel body, no issues with fit and finish. It also has that neopolitan aesthetic down pat and its multiple grouphead brothers are in fact frequently used in Naples cafes to pump out thousands of espressi a day. So having one is like having a pro machine AND a part of Italy in your kitchen.

Izzo apparently no longer makes the pompei available for home purchase anymore new although it seems to be still available for sale at this shop

https://www.espressooutlet.net/gruppo-i ... r-2-group/

If the pompei is not available, the Alex leva is basically almost the same machine in a different and smaller stainless steel box, so I don't think it is correct to consider the alex a true prosumer machine...

On top of that the izzo alex or pompei have the La San Marco grouphead that is much praised and is said to be lower maintenance than othe rgrouphesd designs. The LSM grouphead apparently costs almost twice as much as the grouphead used in the Bosco. There are those who say that the 54mm grouphead design means a narrower but deeper puck which makes it more forgiving to more hasty puck preparation.

Personally (and others mileage may of course differ), I don't see why the OP should buy the bosco sorrento when the izzo alex or pompei are available. In terms of look, the izzo also brings that authentic southern Italy vibe. In terms of cred, the izzo pompei is a commercial machine that is a mainstay in the naples cafe scene. In terms of materials, the izzo chassis is stainless steel unlike the bosco which is thus less corrosion resistant. The bosco possesses no component that i know of that can be said to be superior in anyw ay to the izzo (the izzo pompei Cup warming tray worked very well). On tbe other hand the izzo has a grouphead that is a much more costly component than the bosco's grouphead and that is so highly regarded that it is rhe base for the new generation hybrid levers made by ACS and Nurri. Lastly why buy a machine which has fit and finish that one has already noted is subpar when there are other machines that can do at least as good a job and that have better fit and finish?

Now, speaking of the new generation hybrid levers, if one uses lighter roasts more often than dark roasts, as I do, then the ability to change temperature of the grouphead and the brew boitler independently in an easy way and to regulate and control them become vital. In those circs, the acs and Nurri machines provide that ability in very different ways and still cost only a small fraction of such hyper luxury machines as the LM LEVA X.

I can speak with personal experience of the Nurri L-type SA leva that I bought to replace my izzo pompei as the whole flushing routine was getting too cumbersome and slow. 5-7 shots a day is not an issue for the Nurri. The nurri warms up for action in 15 minutes as opposed to the 45 minutes to an hour a traditional spring lever like the izzo or the bosco would take, and I can change the temperature independently of the other components and the change happens within a few minutes. The twin paddle system allows me to terminate the shot at any time by hand and to operate the preinfusion rotary pump at any time by hand as well. While the nurri has a rotary pump, it is quieter than other pump designs due to it being a rotary pump and the nurri pump can go up to 9 bar and make espresso completely without using the lever at all! If one wants silence then one can even deactivate the pump easily amd use only line pressure as one Nurri owner I know of has done.

The coffee the izzo pompei produced for me was great, but the nurri makes for me significantly better coffee and more easily too - and the nurri brings to my eyes a stylish modern Italy design look to the counter (it was listed as one of the leading Italy made product designs of 2022 in the Compasso d'Oro by ADI). IMHO although it costs more than the izzo and the bosco, it is not unduly more expensive considering what it offers that traditional spring levers do not.
LMWDP #729

Jasper_8137

#19: Post by Jasper_8137 »

CaptainAhab wrote:Negatives:
Rough and ready: From the tolerances I see in the case, fit and finish of the sheet metal, design and construction of the frame, quality of brazing on the boiler... I know this is likely heretical, and will absolutely bend some folks sidewise but I don't see a high level of craftsmanship with the execution of this machine build. I have spent a lifetime in design and building product, I've lived and executed the processes Bosco uses to produce their machines, it's not an indictment but just more of a reality I see in the details of the inside and outside of these units. Nickel plating a boiler does make it shiny, it doesn't however change the craftsmanship of the build. This isn't about hand crafting in a workshop vs CNC production machinery. Hand crafting & building can be done at a very high tolerance with the right skill, equipment and appropriate jigs & fixtures. All this being said, I don't find fault in this aspect when combined with build quality and construction they are offering at the price/value
I feel I should chime in here:
I have a Bosco Sorrento and absolutely love it, however, I can attest, the "fit and finish" is not what I expected. Like many on this forum, I progressed from a simple single boiler to a high end prosumer machine (my last pump driven machine being a LMLM, which I still have). I then started playing w/ lever machines, first a flair, then olympia cremina, followed by an Olympia club. I loved the spring lever so much that I then bought a 70's Gaggia Orion. This machine was fantastic, but I wanted something that was a bit more simple to work on and came across a new Bosco for sale so jumped on it. When I first opened the crate, I was a bit disappointed by the overall fit and finish - for example, the warming tray fits fine, but not perfectly square. The body and front panel have slightly uneven gaps when comparing each side.
These details annoyed me, especially compared to my LMLM which has zero cosmetic imperfections, however, when I pulled my first shot, I found I my annoyance significantly diminished. Since then, I have come to truly love this machine. Shots are consistent day in and day out. I have yet to taste better espresso from any of my prior machines or any that I find in high end shops here in Denver. Maintenance is an absolute breeze. I can honestly say I have no desire to change machines and have no regrets purchasing this one.

So talk you out of it...can't do it, but others may.

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espressotime

#20: Post by espressotime »

Having had a Pompei for 10 years I saw only one downside.It' s humongous.But the thing is a tank.The thickness of the steel of the frame. :)
Made real good espresso and was a steammonster.
I even miss it sometimes.It weighs 135 lbs and lifting it onto the counter was getting a challenge with my age.That' s the only reason I sold it.Otherwise I would have put it in storage and would have switched between machines every once in a while.
A restored vintage machine also would fit topicstarter' s requirements perfectly