Many are also not coated. As long as the water is buffered to a slightly basic Ph the black oxide layer will provide all the protection required. Using acidic water in a copper machine is not a good idea for many reasons.

donn wrote:Really? Both my machines at the moment are springs, but my first lever machine was a Pavoni europiccola, and while I have some reservations about that machine, when it comes to the lever mechanism, it seems to me springs are the opposite of practical. They're fun, when they're working anyway, but the one that always does the job and never causes the trouble is the direct lever. I'm sure there are different perspectives on this, and if there isn't already a thread devoted to the question maybe it's time to start one, but I'd say Wouter made a very practical choice here and his customers as well.

As it happens, my very first espresso machine was a 1970s Europiccola. I was never able to coax anything consistently good from it and after a few years moved to pump machines.

The practicality comes from doing milk drinks in the morning and straight espresso later in the day, and possibly better consistency from spring pulls. I suppose I could always spring (haha) for a Cremina if I want a milk-capable manual lever.

That decision is probably a ways away still, so no telling how this odyssey will turn out.

aecletec wrote:I'll offer http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/88/3/867S.full
Toxicity is rare but also one of the reasons many government agencies advise not to drink from the hot water tap... The Indian example is quite relevant (milk being about as acidic as the upper limit on tap water), but we should consider the adults' improved clearance. I'm of the understanding that uncoated copper can't be sold for food utensils in many countries, so clearly it's seen as an important issue.

The difference is that utensils are used with food, much if not most of it acidic, which will react with copper. I don't think the situation with a (non-acidic) water receptacle is quite the same.

The good news is that the answer to whether there's an issue with the copper reservoir on a Strietman can be derived from scientific testing. Perhaps one of the chemists who frequent H-B will run some tests and report the results.

Balthazar_B wrote:As it happens, my very first espresso machine was a 1970s Europiccola. I was never able to coax anything consistently good from it and after a few years moved to pump machines.

I think the lever has very little if any fault here, with much of the true blame laying on the Pavoni's temperature management.

Not that it's impossible to learn the ins and outs of Pavoni temperature management, but it does have to be learned to get consistently good shots. I haven't been too terribly fond of mine, but I haven't put much effort to learning it's specifics either.

The Caravel on the other hand was fast to learn for me. Stick a thermometer in, get the temperature close, and pull a shot keeping the flow steady. Unless something is way out of line, it turns out pretty decent. If I try to do it all right (which I almost always do, it's not exactly a huge workflow) it usually turns out pretty excellent. It's still possible to mess up, but there's nothing to "reign in".

The CT-1, being an open boiler, I see being much more similar to the Caravel than the Pavoni in mastering it's usage.

Balthazar_B wrote: The good news is that the answer to whether there's an issue with the copper reservoir on a Strietman can be derived from scientific testing. Perhaps one of the chemists who frequent H-B will run some tests and report the results.

That's a good thought!

Balthazar_B wrote:As it happens, my very first espresso machine was a 1970s Europiccola. I was never able to coax anything consistently good from it and after a few years moved to pump machines.

You and many others. It wasn't the direct lever that caused the trouble, though. There are apparently ways to get the temperature under control, but hardly anyone manages to do it. [Edit - I see CwD just said the same thing - you can believe him!] If only you could leave the steamed milk thing behind. The practical thing is right here, impractical is trying to use the same machine for brewing espresso and steaming stuff.

It was really a combination of things back then. Temperature control, the comparatively crappy burr grinders I had in those days, and the variability of coffee quality all played a part. Nothing I made came close to the best espresso I had enjoyed in Italy.

These days, with a very capable grinder, easy access to great coffee from skilled roasters, water optimization (when required), and a good quality, purpose-built machine like a Strietman (or any number of other lever or pump machines), the ability of a non-professional to turn out consistently good espresso won't be hampered by 3 of the Ms.

I'm considering switching from my Strega to the CT1, anyone here who had both maybe and can make a comparison (from memory)? I haven't made a milk based drink in 4 months, or anything other than a double espresso for that matter. I really like something this minimalistic and easy to maintain. Only thing really holding me back is the price (obviously ). But if the shots aren't atleast as good, i really don't see the point. The easier temperature control seems great.

How good are the stock baskets, since the unique size they seem to have there seems to be no other option, so it would be disappointing if they are not great. I'm looking for something that can pull mostly light roasts together with my HG-1. Anyone with an updated opinion maybe, after a few months of use of the CT1 (or the ES3 for that matter, should be basically the same).

You should go back and read the opening post in this thread, it should answer you question.

This is the machine I built in my dreams! Now how to get enough coin to put an order in! One of these next to my Cremina so I can steam for my wife's cappos would be a perfect setup for coffee in our house. Thanks for the great write-up and thread.

Les