pootoogoo wrote:I didn't want to create a buzz, I really appreciate Streitman's work and contribution to the world of espresso (keeping alive the idea of high-quality, long-lasting materials to a simple way of producing espresso). It's just that when the price is close to Bezzera's, or to some extent, Londinium lever (and when you can get a Caravel for ~200€)... it's not surprising that the ES machines production stays low.
If 2000$ was nothing for me, I would definitely encourage Streitman. Sorry, but economics are also an important part of machines success. I may have another idea of what espresso means. Sorry.

Of course a cremina, even used is not so far off a londinium 1 either, but a new Pavoni is cheaper so just get a Pavoni, but a used Pavoni is even cheaper so just get used yes? Therefore a used Pavoni is clearly superior to a londinium 1...such logic just doesn't hold up. A used caravel is an excellent budget choice for us poor folk:) if i could do it over i would get a caravel rather than pavoni, just dont care about milk...ah...so you were right after all no insult intended i am just saying the striean is gorgeous and desirable. It offers a variety of unique traits and reasons for its value. Temp stability and data, and how many lbs of force it takes to pull, seem like relevan factors though.

donn wrote:I think last time I looked, conventional wisdom was that the name of our favorite beverage comes from the last of these, that it's produced expressly for the consumer...

My feeling, based on this classic Arduino poster, is that "espresso" refers to the speed of production...on the go...grab one as you whiz by on the train. That sort of thing...

At any rate, this is one of my favorite espresso posters. Maybe Streitman will come up with another instant classic as well...

Oh...and here's another classic poster to boost the "speedy" idea of espresso:

day wrote:It offers a variety of unique traits and reasons for its value. Temp stability and data, and how many lbs of force it takes to pull, seem like relevan factors though.

Money is a delicate matter, as design I guess... so let's talk about technology.

I didn't know there was a force measurement on the machine is that what you say ? Together with a kind of PID ?
It thought it was just an evolution of the "Chic" machine.


[from Andrea Moretto collection]

Well, with a fancy ("chic" in french) design.

pootoogoo wrote:Well, I must admit I totally agree... the important thing is to be happy with what you paid for. Euro is going down, I guess that's good.
Arduino invented the wall machine in the 20s... I'm sure it wasn't 2000$ at that time.
In my freaking mind, the idea of e x presso/espresso was to bring everybody the best of coffee as fast as possible at a reasonable price.
That was a long time ago.

A new La Peppina costed $700 in 1972. When a base model Ford Mustang was $2700. Espresso was never cheap.
La Peppina out of the box

pootoogoo wrote:I didn't know there was a force measurement on the machine is that what you say ? Together with a kind of PID ?

It's news to me if either of those are in the package.

Bluecold wrote:A new La Peppina costed $700 in 1972. When a base model Ford Mustang was $2700. Espresso was never cheap.
La Peppina out of the box

Wow, I could've pegged the Peppina for a lower cost model given its build quality (also, $700 in 1971 is around $3954 adjusted for inflation! That doesn't sound right...maybe the $700 was adjusted for inflation already?) Is there a place I can find the original retail pricing for vintage home machine like the Cremina, Caravel, Faemina, or Microcimbali?

A friend of mine tried one of these this weekend and he said the espresso was amazing.
It blew everything out of the water he ever tried before including his Cremina.
Brought espresso to a whole new level.

I have a copy of the original brochure for the Faemina and it had a price on it, I tried to find out what the thing did cost in Italy in the fifties but only was able to come up with a very rough estimate of 75% of an average months wages but that is a guestimate as taxes would have been different, and prices went though the roof in Italy in the late fifties (due to a post war boom, also fortified by copieus amounts of $$ in order to keep the commies out). Think it is fair to say that espresso indeed never was cheap.

What espresso machines do Italians use at home?

Marcelnl wrote:My guess would be that the Faeminas, caravels etc ended up in the more upper class households in those days...my Faemina would have cost some 47000lira in 1954 Which I reckon was close to a three quarter of a months wages, considering a historical conversion rate calculator linking this amount to 317 german mark.

Interesting information Marcelnl. I did a quick calculation from Historical exchange rates (1 ITL was 0.000575 GBP in 1955) and Historical Price converter (27 GBP from 1955 represent 620 GBP today)... this means that the Faemina was sold about 950-1000 USD (actualized). That makes sense.
The conclusion is that Ford Mustangs were very cheap cars in the 70s.