Sorry Mathof! Group head (GH) is not the correct definition in that case. I only need the piston unit without the lever. This part is easily removable:

Thank you, Gabor. A picture does so much better than words! I'll be in touch by DM to talk more about this.

Matt

def wrote:I took some brew temperature measurements with my Scace thermofilter today at various surface temperatures. This data should be relevant to any room temperature or setting as long as the surface temperature of your Fiorenzato C.S./Rubinetterie Condor group measurement is taken at 50mm from the bottom of the group.

I want to thank you, Def, for all your work. I finally got an infrared thermometer and took some measurements. They basically mirrored your surface temp results. Thanks to this, I think I am starting to get a handle on the bitter, ashy taste that has plagued me for a couple years since I got my machine (my first)! That said, all your talk of sweet taste is still like an alien language at this time. But it looks like I am making progress.

def wrote:Double spring levers, both fully plumbed in. Joy! I plan to burn through some electricity and coffee over the next couple of weeks.
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My teflon spacer which does not appear to make any difference in group surface temperature or warm up time.

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Which makes better espresso? For B&W The Classic, I think pro 800 is a little better in bringing out sweetness. For Filicori Zecchini - Delicato, I think the Alex Leva does better, however neither are side-by-side tests, and neither are blind tests from several individuals, so not a fair test. Even a fair test is skewed by little things such as barista knowledge of machines. I am sufficiently confident to declare that they both make excellent espresso.

If you had to choose only one, which would it be and why?

drH wrote: If you had to choose only one, which would it be and why?

I sold my pro 800 and still have my Alex Leva. The Leva makes better espresso in my opinion because the brew temperature is ideal and stable. The pro 800 is inconsistent -- climbs slowly for three hours and then gets too hot. Stability allows a barista to fine tune and make adjustments with predictable results.

I do not like Leva shower screen retention design; the pro 800 group has a much cleaner design which reduces workflow effort (cleaning effort between shots). I don't see a difference in espresso between 55mm vs 58mm diameter baskets, but 58mm has more options for leveling tools and tampers. I found and use several different basket sizes for the 55mm Leva. I use a 14g basket for light to medium light roasts where I need to grind very fine, and 18g or 21g baskets for medium to dark roasts.

Steam power for either machine is great, but the Leva has a bigger boiler.

That's great information. I think very few people have compared these side by side. If the Leva is more stable what is your typical routine? Do you flush before a shot to bring up the temperature?

I flush after my shot for short time. I use a dish brush that I found on Amazon when I flush to clean the screen and retainer clip, and I also use the Cafelat cleaning brush to clean the sleeve and seal. The flush is for cleaning only and there is usually no need for a preheat flush unless I have a roast which needs extra extraction. I think adjusting the PID between 248°F to 254°F is the way to go. The group surface temp idles around 172°F (@250°F boiler) all day long, so I don't think this machine really needs a warm up flush. I also use the Espazzola group cleaning tool which works well too. I just got this, so I don't know which tool I like best but the cheap option works well.

I'm curious - do you need a 20 Amp circuit to run the Leva? I remember one vendor claiming that you could run it on a 15 Amp circuit? Why has Izzo not come out with a 15 Amp version, I wonder, Is it because the machine is aimed more at the European market?

It's a 20 amp machine. Which shouldn't be a problem if you're home is up to date. As most kitchens should actually have 20 amp wiring for their outlets at this point. Many like mine have 15 amp outlets and just have to have them replaced with a 15/20 amp style or a 20amp. If you have the traditional 15 amp outlet, check your wiring. You may be lucky like I was.

David, have you measured the peak draw for the Leva? If it's near its rated maximum, might be preferable to use it on a dedicated circuit.