Scace thermofilter temperature measurements Profitec Pro 800 - Page 11

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pizzaman383
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#101: Post by pizzaman383 »

def wrote:I did do several tests using a bare thermocouple over the lip of a portafilter basket with real espresso extraction. Similar results, and this is why I decided to trust the Scace. The bottom line however for me, is that I felt that I started getting better espresso when I cooled the group temperature. I also feel like I have a handle on controlling my shots now, and I get consistent results. The surface and brew temps are just numbers; what matters is what those numbers mean to you for a particular roast. The one thing I feel very certain is that the brew temperature is closely correlated to group temperature, and so that gives me a lot of confidence in being able to repeat a shot once I have a particular coffee dialed in.
Just to expound on this. I have found that group temperature predicts taste with a specific coffee. As the temperature goes up it is more bitter and as it goes down it is more sour. By noting and then repeating the sweet spot temperature I can easily repeat the shot.
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belegnole
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#102: Post by belegnole »

While I have to say thank you for all of the research done here. I also wonder what it all means in relation to the 800 pro. If these results are too be expected of the model in general and not just this machine are we to belive that there are some bad design choices that have been made on the 800?
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[creative nickname]
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#103: Post by [creative nickname] »

I can guarantee you that with a bit of learning its ways you can make truly exceptional shots on a Pro 800, without any special fan-tricks or use of group thermometers. I find it very easy to get repeatable results just using the PID.
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def (original poster)
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#104: Post by def (original poster) »

belegnole wrote:While I have to say thank you for all of the research done here. I also wonder what it all means in relation to the 800 pro. If these results are too be expected of the model in general and not just this machine are we to belive that there are some bad design choices that have been made on the 800?
Possibly, but the machine is also one of the best if not the best home sized dippers available. I have some opinions, but I could be mistaken and am not qualified to make judgments on what is and is not a good design for a commercial spring lever. My observation is that the pro 800 idles about 15°F too hot, and the espresso to my taste is over extracted and bitter because of excessive brew temperature. A little bit of air circulation completely fixes this problem and makes the 800 a pure joy to use. With a lower group temperature, one can pull back to back shots without overheating the group, and at a low idle temperature one can flush before prep to bring the group up to the ideal temperature. If the group is too hot, then a fan or cooling with a wet towel are the only reasonable options to bring the group down to the ideal temperature range for espresso. As mentioned before, turning the PID down to 235°F to 240°F makes the machine very unpleasant to use in my opinion.

Why do some people think there is not an overheating problem? Maybe because their group stays cooler than mine, or maybe because they enjoy very high brew temperatures. Another possibility is that they are pulling tighter shots to somewhat overcome high brew temperature.

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baldheadracing
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#105: Post by baldheadracing »

Just checking if I understand this maybe correctly: If the ambient room temperature was at the 'right' temperature, then would the shot temps be okay?
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def (original poster)
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#106: Post by def (original poster) replying to baldheadracing »

Yes, but it would need to be uncomfortably cold, perhaps 50°F. My tests were made at 65° to 70°, mostly at 68°.

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#107: Post by Earthy »

def wrote: My observation is that the pro 800 idles about 15°F too hot, and the espresso to my taste is over extracted and bitter because of excessive brew temperature.
This has me thinking about taking my own measurements. I would assume that the group and brew temperature relationship you identified should be the same for all machines. Can you say exactly how you measured the group temp? I saw that you took the reading 50mm from the base, but could you say how and with what?

def (original poster)
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#108: Post by def (original poster) replying to Earthy »

I conjecture yes -- the brew temperatures that I recorded will match up with the surface temperatures for any pro 800 machine, and probably any machine that uses this same group.

See posts 62, 64, and 96. I used an Amprobe TMD-56 multi logging digital thermometer to read, display, and record the thermocouple temperatures, a surface mount thermocouple, and a Scace thermofilter.

Probably all you need is a stick on temperature strip. I use Dwyer Instruments, KS-0504 Reversible temperature strips, range 140 to 194°F (60 to 90°C). I purchased ten of these, kept two, and sold the rest for $4 each on HB (gone in 15 minutes). Use the highest reading on the strip (olive color), not the most obvious one. For example in picture below the surface temperature is about 176°F:


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baldheadracing
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#109: Post by baldheadracing »

def wrote:Yes, but it would need to be uncomfortably cold, perhaps 50°F. My tests were made at 65° to 70°, mostly at 68°.
Thanks.

FWIW, my Strega group idles right around 159F. I am measuring where you have the "175 F" lettering.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

def (original poster)
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#110: Post by def (original poster) replying to baldheadracing »

Good to know and thanks for the info. Do you find you need to flush before a shot to get a warmer brew temperature?