Ristretto in a hand levered machine?

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GaggiaGirl

Postby GaggiaGirl » Apr 29, 2006, 3:09 pm

I recently bought a Gaggia Factory. I'm in love with it, but still trying to figure everything out (proper grind dosage, tamping pressure, etc.). Is it possible to draw ristretto shots on a hand lever? How would one accomplish this? If anyone knows any great resources on these machines, please let me know!!! The instructions it came with were crap. THANK YOU!!!!

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another_jim
Team HB

Postby another_jim » Apr 29, 2006, 5:10 pm

It's tough to get a good ristretto with any lever machine; because the crema, already sparser on a regular pull, usually is deficient with a ristretto. One possibility is to preinfuse longer, 15 seconds instead of 10, or to start really slow with the lever; but finish with as fast a flow as in a normale, to get a head of crema.
Jim Schulman

bobcraige

Postby bobcraige » Apr 29, 2006, 7:10 pm

Ristretto is not a problem. Simply remove the cup at the desired shot volume. As to lack of crema with levers, I guess I do not know how to answer that except to say perhaps you need to work on the Barista:

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Bob Craige

LMWDP #7

GaggiaGirl

Postby GaggiaGirl » Apr 29, 2006, 7:38 pm

Okay, a ristretto pull will just waste a bit of espresso, then? As there is no way to alter the amount of water that you pull in? The pour you posted was beautiful...I want to pour shots that look like that! Unfortunately, I do not yet have a burr grinder (that's next), and I live in a coffee wasteland where you cannot buy freshly roasted beans of any quality. Any suggestions on what to use based on those limitations? I am currently buying Illy Fine Grind and it's the best stuff I can seem to get my hands on.

bobcraige

Postby bobcraige » Apr 29, 2006, 8:25 pm

The good grinder is a must. As to coffee, sources, try Caffe Fresco's Ambrosia. They ship priority mail and you will have it before it is even finished outgasing-you will need to wait until it is ready to use at its peak.

http://www.caffefresco.us/
Bob Craige



LMWDP #7

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another_jim
Team HB

Postby another_jim » Apr 29, 2006, 10:33 pm

Hi Bob,

A half shot is not a ristretto, and the crema you illustrate is subpar by pump machine standards; although excellent for a lever. I don't want to get into a shouting match; but it's important to be accurate in these posts.

A ristretto on a pump machine is a half volume shot that takes longer to pull than a regular shot (about 35 seconds, rather than 25 to 28 ). Shot times on a lever are very different, typically the pull part is only 12 to 18 seconds and is preceded by a long preinfuse. How to modify that for a good ristretto is not something I'm sure about, nor have I seen anything written about it.
Jim Schulman

bobby yarrow

Postby bobby yarrow » Apr 30, 2006, 1:40 am

Jim, I'm not sure I can see what's sub-par about the crema in Bob's shots. For simple ratio, it seems impressive. The color may not be to your taste, but that seems to me mostly a matter of roast. I don't think it's possible to get superior crema from a silvia-class pump machine, or at least not in my experience. Don't mean to be defending Bob; I am curious.

As to pulling a ristretto with a lever machine, in my month with my europiccola I've had no success, for exactly the reason you say. I can overpack my basket, use a longer pre-infuse, and end up with a very difficult pull that produces a very low volume of espresso. It's thick, but lacks decent crema and tastes overextracted. Should say, I'm not a ristretto drinker really in any event, so it hasn't been much of a focus for me. Most often it's happened when I've messed up rather than when I was aiming for a ristretto.

One side note: my europiccola uses far more coffee to produce its ounce or so of espresso than any of the pump machines I've used. It's a different thing, as you know; shorter extraction time, less espresso, more coffee. 2.5 oz in 25 seconds isn't possible, but while the volume is more like ristretto the faster extraction makes it something different. I'm not sure how well pump ratios and lever ratios are going to add up.
Man you ought to hear her with the siren on . . .

happytamper

Postby happytamper » Apr 30, 2006, 2:22 am

GaggiaGirl wrote:Okay, a ristretto pull will just waste a bit of espresso, then? As there is no way to alter the amount of water that you pull in? The pour you posted was beautiful...I want to pour shots that look like that! Unfortunately, I do not yet have a burr grinder (that's next), and I live in a coffee wasteland where you cannot buy freshly roasted beans of any quality. Any suggestions on what to use based on those limitations? I am currently buying Illy Fine Grind and it's the best stuff I can seem to get my hands on.



If you really want a good crema, go to sweetmarias coffee roasting website and order a few lbs of green beans and roast them in an old popcorn blower or stovetop. all the info is on the sweetmarias site. it will definitely be an improvement from some pre-roasted, pre-ground, pre-pared, ................ Nothing like home made.

enjoy your cup.
Mitchell
LMWDP #77

bobcraige

Postby bobcraige » Apr 30, 2006, 7:40 am

Dear Gaggia Girl

I am sorry, I failed to mention that I also grind finer than usual, resulting in a very long pull time and high resistance to the lever. I am just slightly below the point where the lever stalls, or is locked by the coffee. This results in a relatively long extraction. As you already understood, some of the espresso goes into the drain as the pull volume is determined by the machine group geometry.
Bob Craige



LMWDP #7

bobcraige

Postby bobcraige » Apr 30, 2006, 1:17 pm

Dear Another_Jim

Since I have no experience to go by, please post some of your photos of what crema should look like.

Thanks.
Bob Craige



LMWDP #7