Right pressure and grind for vintage Zacconi Riviera lever espresso machine

#1: Post by **Hoefner** » January 2nd, 2023, 11:03 am

Hi!

A year ago I've bought a vintage Zacconi Riviera with the small 45mm portafilter. After a lot of trial and error I'm still far away from a good result. I've recorded every shot (in German, so it's probably useless to show it here) in order to improve - but no matter what setting it still gets sour. So I increased the temperature (by putting up the pressure), I increased the amount of coffee, I made the grind finer and so on...
My problem is: All the data you find on the internet concerning the amount of ground beans are meant for bigger portafilters than the one that my Zacconi has. I varied from 9 to 12 grams in my runs (with more than 12 it gets too tight and the puck gets all messed up).
I also varied in settings from 0.9 to 1.4 Bar on the pressostat.

Maybe someone can help me with some basic set-up tipps specifically for this machine. Specially the pressure settings for the temperature would be great so I can start experimenting again with a solid base. I'm glad for every advise!

Thank you in advance

Greetings from Switzerland

Hoefner

#2: Post by **GPrince** » February 21st, 2023, 8:25 pm

I'm playing the same game. LMK if you figured it out. Same machine

#3: Post by **zrieser** » February 22nd, 2023, 8:38 pm

Same game same machine!

I am having my best results with 14-14.5 g dose in and 28g out. I have my pressure dropped to 0.9. I am getting to that volume with a Fellini pull at 3/4 lever height.

My struggle is I seems to still get variations in taste when I am pulling the same beans the same method.

I had to have the wiring redone by an electrician but will get it back this weekend to keep working.

#4: Post by **Tillamook** » February 23rd, 2023, 11:08 am

I would try a new spring. It is my oppinion that these original springs lose strength quickly and have a shorter life than others. I ordered a new spring from lamachinacafe and this improved everything.

#5: Post by **Nunas** » February 23rd, 2023, 11:17 am

I agree with changing out the spring. Incidentally, the Riviera spring was never particularly powerful. Some of us have substituted the spring from a Ponte Veccio. The PV spring is beefier and therefore a bit of a chore to install. The best thing to do is make a jack out of a bolt and nut, or cut a turnbuckle in half. Mount the nut or the cut end of the turnbuckle in a block of wood, then turn the screw to gradually press the piston up into the group head. It can be done by removing the group head and using C-clamps, but use caution, as the spring could fly under great power if the clamp slips

...don't ask me how I know this

#6: Post by **realdoctor** » February 23rd, 2023, 12:41 pm

I agree. With a PV spring, the machine should produce a PV shot. The rest of the group is more or less identical. The boiler is just a boiler.

It is worth remembering that the machine will not stabilize at an equilibrium temperature that produces a good coffee. You have to time shots for the part of its temperature cycle where the group is hot enough but not overheated. Like the PV export, you should have 2-3 shots before you need to let it rest and cool. It's much better than the Pavoni in this regard, but it still overheats.

Jim

#7: Post by **Blernsball** » February 23rd, 2023, 3:18 pm

I have found it easier to figure out the proper dose with my pavoni by starting with the yield of a shot. For levers, that is essentially fixed (unless you cut it early). Weigh all your shots and figure out what the average yield is. Finer grinds absorb more water (I think?).

Take that, pick your ratio (1:2 - 1:3) and you have a good starting point for dose. Fine tune from there. Then stick with it.

Be careful about grinding finer. Infuriatingly, that can also make shots more sour. A grind that is too fine is prone to channeling and now you live in sour town. This happens to me all the time. I keep going finer and it stays sour. Finally I'll go way back coarser and things will taste great. Start coarser then you think and work your way slowly finer.

A good grinder, WDT and good puck prep is a must.

#8: Post by **drgary** » February 27th, 2023, 9:02 am

Like Jim said above, the temperature that matters is at the group. Many La Pavoni owners measure temperature on the outside of the group as a guide to the temperature in the brew chamber. Keep the boiler pressure low as someone else posted to avoid overheating the group. And if it overheats you can toggle off and wait, but you can also cool the group with a wet cloth or immerse the bottom in a cup of cool water and partly cock the spring to draw water in. I tried a Ponte Vecchio Export long ago. The spring is strong so it pulls a great shot. Agreeing with another comment, grind coarse enough so that you get good crema. And here's a must-read general guide to dialing in shots by taste. It helps to brew your coffee in another way like immersion to see how it tastes and aim your shot for that taste.

Espresso 101: How to Adjust Dose and Grind Setting by Taste

#9: Post by **peacecup** » February 27th, 2023, 3:16 pm

I've been pullin 3-4 shots a day on that same group, with Ponte Vecchio/Sama machines for 20 years. What works best for me is to fill the basket as close as possible to the top, 14g or more depending on roast level.

I did not see what kind of beans you have, but you definitely need fresh-ish beans with these machines, either freshly roasted or properly-sealed Italian roasts, long before their "best before" and stored in the freezer after opening. These machines shine with Italian espresso blends.

I would keep the pressure at 1 bar or below, not much above in any case.

I take 1-2 half pulls, then a full pull. Pull the lever smoothly down, hold it 5-10 secs, then release. Grind fine enough so that the first half-pull makes a fast drip/slow stream, and the second pull finishes the shot (if the second still slow, stop it half-way and take a third). Time isn't too important, 1 minute is not too long. I fill the basket like i did in the "cut corner" technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lkrgci3aq1E'

I would not worry too much about the new spring at first, good results can be had with the old spring unless it is cracked or broken. Putting a stronger spring in will probably require the spring removal tool, a good thing to have in any case.

Let us know how this works, and we can fine-tune it.

#10: Post by **peacecup** » February 27th, 2023, 3:23 pm

You should be able to get parts from these people. and ask questions. they are very good:

https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/rica ... cconi.html

The piston removal tool is found on the PV page, ask if it fits the Zacconi before you order:

https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/rica ... cchio.html