Restoration of a 1963 Faema Lambro [Finished] - Page 14

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IamOiman (original poster)
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#131: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

civ wrote: No.
That tool does not have enough energy to heat up a lump of material like that one.
I found that out by playing around with the soldering irons I had :shock:

My MAP Pro torch is adjustable to have a small focused flame, I just have one more 'novice' question: is it preferable to have the Lambro on its side so the joint is pointing upwards or can I simply do the job with the Lambro in its regular position where the joint is perpendicular to the table surface?
-Ryan
Using a spice grinder violates the Geneva Convention
LMWDP #612

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civ

#132: Post by civ »

Hello:
IamOiman wrote: ... by playing around with the soldering irons ...
Yes.
Been there, done that.
And bitched about too.

Heat management when soldering this type of stuff is complicated.
If I had a dollar for every joint I screwed up ...

There's absolutely nothing like hands-on experience. 8^D
You never get enough of that.
IamOiman wrote: ... MAP Pro torch is adjustable to have a small focused flame ...
That may do it, can't say for sure.

But the secret to doing this is directly related to having enough heat and very fine temperature management at and around the pinhole.

You need to first heat up everything around the fitting to a safe point ie: below the melting point of the blob of solder where the pinhole is.
And then apply yet more heat to a very small patch on that blob of solder ie: where you are sealing the pin-hole with more solder.

This needs a very concentrated flame, has to be done quickly and in a very short time to get the spot just hot enough to achieve proper wetting and fuse with the solder you are applying without affecting the rest of the blob.

Like many other things, when you see experienced hands do it, it looks absurdly easy ... 8^|'
Unfortunately it just looks like that, it is not.

From all the machines you have, do you have some piece of scrap boiler with a blob of solder where you can practice first?
That would be ideal.
IamOiman wrote: ... preferable to have the Lambro on its side ...
In this case, as in all soldering/brazing/welding situations, gravity operates against you.
You have to find a position that, in case the blob of solder should become loose, gravity will not affect it.
ie: the fitting will not move from it's position.

You may want to consider unmounting the boiler.
At the very least, all pipes to the fitting should be removed.

You have put in a lot of work/cash and done a fantastic job, but one cannot do it all.
Maybe you know an old school neighbourhood plumber (over 60) or an aircon tech who can give you a hand with this using an oxy torch.

Those would be the chaps to help you out, it may only cost you a pair of six-packs.
And you will learn a lot by just watching.

Don't worrry, you have done very well up to now, you'll manage.

Best,

CIV

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IamOiman (original poster)
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#133: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

civ wrote: From all the machines you have, do you have some piece of scrap boiler with a blob of solder where you can practice first?
That would be ideal.

In this case, as in all soldering/brazing/welding situations, gravity operates against you.
You have to find a position that, in case the blob of solder should become loose, gravity will not affect it.
ie: the fitting will not move from it's position.

You may want to consider unmounting the boiler.
At the very least, all pipes to the fitting should be removed.

You have put in a lot of work/cash and done a fantastic job, but one cannot do it all.
Maybe you know an old school neighbourhood plumber (over 60) or an aircon tech who can give you a hand with this using an oxy torch.

Those would be the chaps to help you out, it may only cost you a pair of six-packs.
And you will learn a lot by just watching.

Don't worrry, you have done very well up to now, you'll manage.

Best,

CIV
I keep pendulating back and forth that this job should not be complicated to 'do I need to demount the boiler for this solder?' For something like low temp solder that is not brazed (the fitting joint is pretty likely to be silver solder like the other joints) it just seems crazy to me that I would need to take that much consideration into applying it on the joint like taking off the pipes or even boiler. If I were going to braze silver solder on it then yes I absolutely agree with everything you just stated in terms of prepping and technique.

I am honestly just not sure, and since I don't know I am not in a position to proceed forward and attempt to do it myself.

I do have the original boiler lid but it has no solder joint for me to try and practice on. My limited brazing skills are confined to pipes only, and I have not really experimented/practiced much with brazing or soldering involving a large surface like a boiler.

I unfortunately know nobody like you describe, it's just my metal doctor. At this point maybe I'll just take the whole machine to him. Although it feels a little defeatist if I have to run to him every time I have something needed to be done.
-Ryan
Using a spice grinder violates the Geneva Convention
LMWDP #612

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civ

#134: Post by civ »

Hello:
IamOiman wrote: ... keep pendulating back and forth that this job should not be complicated ...
Again, been there and done that.
But sometimes we don't know what we don't know, so to speak.
IamOiman wrote: ... know nobody like you describe, it's just my metal doctor.
... take the whole machine to him.
... feels a little defeatist if I have to run to him every time ...
Hmm ....

You may want to reconsider the defeatist part of that.

A bit about what happens to me many times:

I still have most of my shop skills from jr. high (Arlington Va.) back in the day, but don't have a lathe.
I need one every time I want to get something done but can't afford one and if I could, don't have where to set it up.
I have at least four projects on stand by, two of them coffee related.

The small one-operator lathe shop owners I was able to get by with 20 odd years ago near where I live have either died or closed shop.
The remaining handfull that are working won't bother to look at/talk about the usually small one-off stuff (an hour at most at the lathe) I need done.
Only one of them will sometimes do some work for me and when he does, always charges me like if he were a dentist or a plastic surgeon.
That's all I have but I do not consider it defeatist to return there, there's only so much you can do with a Dremel or a drill press.

So ...
If you know that your metal doctor will do it better than you and will not charge you an arm/leg/kidney, go for it.
The dedication and work you have put into your beautiful Lambro certainly deserves it.

It took me too long to learn that you have to choose your battles, not all are worth the effort/risk.

Like I said: Don't worrry, you have done very well up to now, you'll manage.
Looking forward to see the job finished. ;^D

Best,

CIV

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IamOiman (original poster)
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#135: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

So after talking with a few people I elected to do the Loctite 290 patch. It's a green liquid that quickly settles on the metal surface. I let it cure for 48 hours and so far I am not detecting leaks with my mirror spoon checker. I was happy at this point and decided to attach the steam pipe.


Unfortunately that pipe was damaged after I realized it was hissing and spurting. Taking off this pipe and inspecting it I saw water was escaping from the solder, and the conical surface that connects to the fitting was cracked. This was something I could actually fix, so I cleaned up the pipe with scotch brite and acetone, applied flux, and brazed silver solder onto the damaged areas. It's a little hard to see the damage but it was definitely there.



Flux


Post braze



I cleaned off the excess flux and filed down the extra silver solder on the nipple part so the fitting would screw down straight. And it is fixed!


-Ryan
Using a spice grinder violates the Geneva Convention
LMWDP #612

patrickff

#136: Post by patrickff »

Just a BIG thank you for posting all those details!
I am a fan of restoration threads.

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IamOiman (original poster)
Team HB

#137: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

I made space to place the Lambro side by side to the Bosco right now. I have the drain hosed to a small container and the inlet is detached until I need to refill the boiler again. The leaks are all addressed now and I can get a duty cycle of 15-20%, where it heats up for about 30-35 seconds and remain off for 150 seconds at operational pressure. My shots are a little toasty right now but that is ok because it will be good for late fall and winter use when it's colder in the room!



The Lambro is not very big (to finally answer caeffe's question from way back) at 14.5" wide x 18.5" tall (with plexi) or 29" tall with lever x 19" deep. The Bosco basically dwarfs the Lambro and the Pavoni Professional actually does not look very small in comparison!






As of now I just need to redo the water sight glass cover but otherwise it's just small tinkering for this project. I am marking it as Finished!
-Ryan
Using a spice grinder violates the Geneva Convention
LMWDP #612

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drgary
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#138: Post by drgary »

Congratulations, Ryan! There's nothing like enjoying the fruits of your labors in a collectible and classic machine. You'll get lots of questions about whether you prefer the Bosco or the Lambro. I would guess it's just a matter of dialing in either one. And thank you for the size comparison.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

Jeff
Team HB

#139: Post by Jeff »

I'm completely envious. Looks fantastic and I have no doubt that its results match.

Paolo

#140: Post by Paolo »

Well done, Ryan!
Your Lambro looks magnificent!