Fausto wrote:Can someone refer me to some information on how a dipper works?

Here is a link with a description of various lever styles and some very good pictures of machine interiors showing the different lever designs:

https://comingsooncoffee.wordpress.com/ ... o-machine/

How does what we know about the Pro 800 compare to the Bezzera Strega? They certainly look similar.

Strega owners please chime in here, but as I understand it the Strega is not a dipper in that the group chamber is filled by the vibe pump (at I think 11 bar) not by boiler pressure.

canuckcoffeeguy wrote:How does what we know about the Pro 800 compare to the Bezzera Strega? They certainly look similar.

The Strega is a hybrid pump/lever machine. It's designed to provide pretty high pressure via the pump at the beginning of the shot, but it uses the sprung lever at the end for its declining pressure profile. It has some other unique characteristics you can read about in Jim Schulman's review: Bezzera Strega Review.

Although current information is incomplete, the Profitec appears to be a classic dipper, with the onboard pump used only to fill the boiler from its reservoir (if one has not plumbed it in), NOT to contribute to the shot. And until a production unit has been thoroughly tested, it's impossible to know how temperature-stable it will be, or if one will need to do heating or cooling flushes when the machine has been idle for some period of time (and if so, whether variable flushes will be required depending on ambient temperatures and/or how long it's been idle). Another question will be around how stable the water temperature will be during a ~35 second shot, or if Profitec has included reservoirs between the boiler and the grouphead to moderate the heat of the water coming out of the boiler.

So many questions.

It would be fun to see a direct comparison between a Pro 800 and a Londinium L1-P, but I don't think any owners of the latter are likely to be in the vicinity of any sellers of the former (in the US, I think only Clive Coffee and WLL will carry it), and soon there'll be just a handful of L1-P US owners.

In other news from an Australian distributor, it appears that Profitec will be beginning manufacture of these machines during the month of July. Because Europe basically shuts down in August, there'll be a lull before production starts up again in September. I suppose there's an outside chance probable US sellers like WLL and Clive will get a couple of machines in before the end of July.

Here's a schematic of an Olympia Cremina. The principle is the same for all dippers, although some (like the Idrocompresso, and one of the Boscos, I believe) use a small reservoir to cool the water a bit before it goes into the chamber.

The Idrocompresso isn't a dipper, it's a thermosyphon lever. All Bosco levers have a small reservoir behind the group which stores the shot water so that the water is cooler then water pulled directly from the boiler.

While the Cremina group is bolted directly to the boiler the Bosco's group is mounted to the front frame so it's really a hybrid dipper. I believe this is the case with most of the modern spring lever "dippers".

John, thanks for the correction. I never realized -- or perhaps knew once and completely forgot -- that the Idro uses a thermosyphon instead of a reservoir for temperature management.

Fausto wrote:Can someone refer me to some information on how a dipper works? I've learned the basics on the thermosiphon while researching the L1. If the L1-P is a dipper and the L1-P is better than the L1, can I assume that a dipper is better/more expensive?

The L1-P is not a dipper, it's a cold fed HX. I can't find much actual info but the group would be heated by a thermosyphon set up (similar to the L1) but the shot water is fed directly from the cold water inlet through an HX inside the boiler to the group. Boiler water is not used for your shots as it is with a dipper/hybrid dipper.

Australian distributor has posted the specs (http://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/shop ... #gsc.tab=0):

Listed price in AUS$ is 4,999. Putting that in perspective, the same dealer is selling the Profitec Pro 700 for list of $4,249 (on sale for $3,999) and the Alex Leva for $4,699 (on sale for $4,399).

Profitec Pro 800

FEATURES

Unpretentious design with a high-quality workmanship
Massive lever brew-group, weight 7.8kg
Copper boiler with a 3.5L volume
PID-display behind the drip tray to adjust the boiler temperature
Simple switch from water tank to a fixed water supply. Internal pump used when switched to tank, pump does not operate when switched to mains (so near silent operation)
Waste water drainage is in place
Drip tray with a 1L capacity
3L volume water tank
High-end, stainless steel steam- and hot-water wands ('no burn')
Boiler pressure gauge
2 signal lights
green (indicates operational readiness) and
orange (indicates water tank shut-off is on)
Large, removable cup warming tray
Height-adjustable feet
Output: 230V, 1600W
Dimensions w/o porta filter and lever (h x w x d):420mm x 340mm x 510mm
Dimensions with porta filter and lever (h x w x d):730mm x 340mm x 580mm
Included with delivery: 3 porta filters (1-cup, 2-cup and bottomless)