Profitec Pro 800 Lever w/PID

#1: Post by **Balthazar_B** » Jun 27, 2015, 9:54 am

Over in the Knockbox forum, there's a thread on a new grinder and lever espresso machine from Profitec. Seems only right to have a thread in the Lever forum for discussion of this new machine.

Information and photos on Profitec's Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 554&type=3

In the photo above, does it look to anyone else like the drip tray and the main carcass of the machine are poorly joined?

My questions right now:
-Dipper or thermosyphon? Dipper, according to an Australian distributor
- Size of boiler? 3.5 litre copper boiler (that's interesting given all the hoopla about Profitec stainless boilers)
- How does the PID come into play? Used only to adjust boiler temperature
- 240V heating element(s)? 230V, 1600W (Australian spec, anyway); US specs still unclear
- To be released when? Looks like shipments may begin in July.
- PRICE??? Insanely priced in Australia; US price still TBA

Would be nice to see some photos of this machine's innards.

#2: Post by **kwantfm** » Jun 29, 2015, 6:56 am

Australian Profitec distributor has confirmed that the Pro 800 is a dipper.

#3: Post by **thm655321** » Jun 29, 2015, 7:53 am

In reply to my query on Profitec's Facebook page, Profitec have said:

"The Pro800 PID-display is located behind the drip tray to adjust the boiler temperature. It is a 15 amp machine with vibrations pump and the group lever group set up as a dipper."

#4: Post by **Balthazar_B** » replying to thm655321 » Jun 29, 2015, 8:44 am

So in some ways a hybrid of the Londinium L1 and L1-P (and using a PID instead of a pstat for temperature regulation). I realize not everyone can do this, but plumbing in, rather than relying on a tank and vibe pump, would be far preferable with this machine. Depending on cost and other factors, the L1-P might be the better choice if one wants a purpose-built, plumbed in high-capacity dipper. Just a preliminary take on incomplete information.

#5: Post by **Fausto** » Jun 29, 2015, 12:37 pm

Can someone refer me to some information on how a dipper works? I've learned the basics on the thermosiphon while researching the L1. If the L1-P is a dipper and the L1-P is better than the L1, can I assume that a dipper is better/more expensive?

Still seems odd that they went with a PID over a Pstat if it's only a single boiler (which I imagine it is). Which would mean that the switch behind the drip tray might just be for swapping water sources? This seems to be quite the little hybrid they've cooked up.

#6: Post by **spiffy** » Jun 29, 2015, 12:54 pm

Fausto wrote:Can someone refer me to some information on how a dipper works? I've learned the basics on the thermosiphon while researching the L1. If the L1-P is a dipper and the L1-P is better than the L1, can I assume that a dipper is better/more expensive?

A dipper is essentially like a drinking straw that goes down into the boiler. Boiler pressure forces water through the tube into the group.

#7: Post by **Fausto** » replying to spiffy » Jun 29, 2015, 1:33 pm

How does the water come down to brew temperature consistently? Seems like it would be too hot.

#8: Post by **phillip canuck** » Jun 29, 2015, 2:05 pm

I can't speak to the specfics of this design, but, a dipper (like my Rancilio Z9) relies on the metal of the group to dissipate heat. Along with that are ambient air conditions. It is easy for me to tell a difference in shot temperature when my machine is used at home in a relatively confined space (my small kitchen, not much air flow) and a cafe (much larger space) that I occassionally bring it to for a bit of work.

-phillip

#9: Post by **baldheadracing** » Jun 29, 2015, 3:14 pm

Fausto wrote:How does the water come down to brew temperature consistently? Seems like it would be too hot.

The group weighs 17.5 lbs in the two-spring dipper version (handle in place, but no portafilter).

Read about the temp drop from boiler to the group: DIY Dipper Lever

#10: Post by **Balthazar_B** » Jun 29, 2015, 8:43 pm

Fausto wrote:Can someone refer me to some information on how a dipper works?

Here's a schematic of an Olympia Cremina. The principle is the same for all dippers, although some (like the Idrocompresso, and one of the Boscos, I believe) use a small reservoir to cool the water a bit before it goes into the chamber.