Premature wear on Profitec Pro 800 V2

#1: Post by **statsman** » February 16th, 2023, 7:37 pm

I've had my Profitec Pro 800 V2 for less than a month, and it is showing some concerning wear patterns which suggests that something is not aligned correctly. Just above the pivot point of the lever, there are arc-shaped grooves that are very obvious when running a finger across the surface. It even looks like a chrome layer has been removed to expose a different material (brass?) underneath. It seems like this shouldn't be happening. I think it's caused by a pin in the cam(?) that sits a bit proud (third photo). That pin is only exposed when the lever is down, during which I assume it's under load and therefore difficult to adjust.

So my questions are:
1) Is this worth worrying about?
2) Is there some relatively easy way to push the pin a bit to the right without damaging anything?

Thanks!

#2: Post by **Ben Z.** » February 16th, 2023, 7:42 pm

Kind of surprised the lever isn't steel.

#3: Post by **Conch54** » February 16th, 2023, 8:35 pm

I looked at mine ( same machine 1 mos old)and the pin is flush on both sides I would think you could hold the lever down so the pin is showing like the photo you took and with a small wood mallet hammer you probably could drive it flush with minimal effort.... Might only need a minimal tap so it's not rubbing..... but that's what I'd do ......BUT you probably should send these photos to your retailer and ask their advice.

February 17th, 2023, 2:29 pm

Thanks for checking your machine. I opened up a ticket with tech support at Whole Latte Love, along with the photos. They replied, "The tolerances for the lever are very tight to keep the lever stable. This does result in the wear pattern you are seeing." Which seems like BS to me, as that pin is clearly wonky.

I would really like to find a way to transfer the load off of the pin before banging away at it. I might be able to do this by shoving a block of wood between the piston end and the rest of the group head, while the lever is down. In the absence of different advice, I may just end up trying that.

February 17th, 2023, 3:28 pm

This has come up before. From December 2021: Profitec Pro 800 Lever Grinding

In a nutshell, groups in this style are not made by Profitec (or Londinium, or Bosco, etc.). They are made by an unknown number of parts makers. It isn't easy to figure out which parts maker is supplying which machine makers, but one of the places that makes these groups is well-known for 'minor' quality issues like this with their brass castings (and not just this group ... portafilters, steam valves, etc., as well). 'Minor' means that those issues are not supposed to affect performance.

IIRC, Salvatore's first run of his compact lever (SCL) had over a 10% reject rate for 'minor' quality issues of this group. He did some machining and put the machined groups that he was comfortable selling in discounted machines. That's not something a larger assembler like Profitec can do in a price-sensitive market.

The version of the group that is supplied with the Victoria Arduino Athena is supposed to be of better quality, but the group alone is over $1000, and a 2-group Athena is over $14k. I have a Victoria Arduino group (not the machine), and it does not have these issues. I haven't heard of similar-appearing groups used in Boscos having this issue either. Again, the actual group maker may well be different, as is the price point.

Ben Z. wrote:Kind of surprised the lever isn't steel.

Groups with (stainless) steel components are much more expensive. AFAIK, only Lapera (current production), Kees, and La Marzocco lever groups use stainless steel components within their lever groups.

#6: Post by **Ben Z.** » February 18th, 2023, 12:56 am

I wasn't thinking stainless, just chromed mild steel (for the lever only, not the rest of the group) . That's way cheaper than brass.

#7: Post by **DaveC** » February 18th, 2023, 4:07 am

statsman wrote:
So my questions are:
1) Is this worth worrying about?
2) Is there some relatively easy way to push the pin a bit to the right without damaging anything?

Thanks!

No not really it can happen, drift the cam pin to the right a bit. The scraping is on the inside, so not super visible and to an extent it can happen on all groups. I have seen many groups in Italian bars with those marks, and many with looser tolerances that have none after 7 years of operation.

I'm hoping to meet up with one of the larger lever group manufacturers, I've got to know them over the years and ask about a change to the way they make their groups. It wouldn't help the specific problem of a pin being misaligned, although it would immediately alert anyone testing to the fact that it is. It would, however prevent/significantly reduce the almost inevitable wear marks within the lever mechanism. I won't go into it any more at this point and probably won't see them until October. The main problem, I don't buy machines, I don't buy groups and have no leverage (pun intended). Which means I need to convince them to do this because it's the "right thing to do". Not an easy task!

The only other way would be to get a customisation option for their lever machine manufacturing customers who are willing to pay for it. Although I would still have to persuade them to build a test unit.

February 18th, 2023, 8:48 am

Ben Z. wrote:I wasn't thinking stainless, just chromed mild steel (for the lever only, not the rest of the group) . That's way cheaper than brass.

Ah. Sorry, I misunderstood. The part that is showing wear is the yoke and is usually cast bronze. The lever - the shaft that screws into the yoke and holds the handle - is usually steel.

February 18th, 2023, 11:08 am

I have seen that wear pattern. Drifting the pin a bit so it is flush is worth trying. After that I would watch to see if it comes back out.

#10: Post by **Moka 1 Cup** » March 28th, 2023, 3:12 pm

I received my Pro 800 two days ago. After maybe twenty shots I start noticing the same happening on my machine and it reminded me of this thread. However I cleaned the area, first with a finger

, and then with some kitchen paper and it went away. It was probably just the grease, the surface still looks intact, and only on the left side, nothing on the opposite side.
I guess I should use some lubricant to prevent any wear. I did not find any post in the forum relative to the lubrication of the lever and the cam, only about the inside of the cylinder. I was thinking about using some gun grease, because of the high temperature, assuming it will never get inside the cylinder and in contact with he water coming from the boiler.

Do any of you use any lubricant on those parts?