Hi all.

With my La Pavoni Europiccola, if I try to hurry and move to the next shot I get the famous sneeze.
It is a bit of a pain to clean, I empty the boiler after it cools down, flip it upside down and rinse the group under running water to get the most out and I also use a rinsed baby wipe that it fold and "stuff" under the portafilter thread to wipe it off (yes, it is unplugged).

I guess the lightweight of this machine makes it easy to just clean it. Also, even without the sneeze, I still get some grounds accumulated in the group threads, and I wonder how other folks routinely clean their machines. Flipping the machine under running water is not very practical with heavier machines, no does taking off the group every time.

I tried to lift the lever to the point right before it releases water but there is still enough pressure for a sneeze. I guess I just need to be a bit more patient.
I was wondering which other levers, if any have a 3-way valve that would break the pressure.
In the morning, I make coffee for both me and my wife and it would be nice to speed things up a little. I do multiple pulls and it seems to work, but if I have guests... well it is not a machine to have when you are entertaining a large party.

Do the Ponte Vecchio groups also have the same sneeze issue?
I am thinking that in time, I either get a 2-group Lusso to speed things up, or maybe a second La Pavoni.

Thanks,

Erez

I guess I have a little more patience than you, as I seldom get that from my lp. I just make sure the lever is all of the way down and there is no back pressure trying to push it back up any.

Sometimes I will fill a small plastic Tupperware bowl with water and then put it over the the bottom of the group and immerse it in water. If there are any lose grinds, that cleans it some. I will even lift up on the lever and let water go into the bowl (I have never done/had to do what you do (turn the machine upside down and run water over it).

Katzer wrote:I am thinking that in time, I either get a 2-group Lusso to speed things up, or maybe a second La Pavoni.

Thanks,

Erez

OR, you could just slightly lift the lever to relieve the pressure still being generated against the puck before you remove the portafilter. Best of all, it's free. When I had multiple levers, this was my go-to technique to never have the sneeze.

Just my $.02

I am a new user to a lever machine but I have no problems with this on my La Pavoni and can pull multiple shots. What you describe just sounds like an absolute faff for cleaning when all you're trying to do is make a couple of cups of coffee . I just pull one shot, and then very, very carefully pull the portafilter back towards me - listening for the pressure releasing. It escapes gradually, and then I can remove it completely. I maintain a firm upwards pressure just in case I take it too far - but I've never had it sneeze on me.

Finally, as for a tiny bit of coffee getting stuck to the shower head - I just do a rinse and wipe it off with a clean cloth / towl. Usually rinse it again. By rinse, I am just doing a quick pull with a bowl or mug below it.

I found success eliminating P.F. sneeze on my 2nd gen LPE 1) Dose less allowing for head space between puck (that swells) and group screen. 2) Grind coarser and 3) Tamp with less force. 4) Allow more time after pull before removing P.F. You will have to play with the variables here but I found a balance that gave me the ideal taste profile and eliminated the messy P.F. sneeze.

Also it's the 2nd gen groups that are most prone to PF sneeze. 2nd gen are steam heated groups while 1st and 3rd gen are water heated groups. The water heated groups rarely pose this problem. I have a 1963 Europiccola and I can take the PF off almost immediately after pulling a shot and I get no sneeze whatsoever.

Others have noted some good mitigating approaches to minimizing the sneeze...but if it continues to be a major irritation, you may just want to sell your 2nd gen Europiccola and get a 1st or 3rd gen model.

For a quick cleaning I would put a small piece of paper towel in the portafilter, loosely engage it with a bowl underneath, lift the lever and wiggle the portafilter tight and loose a few times to force water over the top edge of the portafilter so that everything gets a rinse. Hot water will be coming out, so best to hold the very end of the portafilter handle.

I also have a small hair brush and cup of Q-tips dedicated for the machine only on hand for a quick go around the shower screen where the gasket is. It's quick and easy.

I agree with Greg "grog" definitely a bigger issue with 2nd gen LPE steam driven models. None issue with my 73 LPE hot water fed.

Katzer wrote:Also, even without the sneeze, I still get some grounds accumulated in the group threads, and I wonder how other folks routinely clean their machines.

I use the 'portafilter wiggle' similar to MB. I haven't bothered with a paper towel in the PF (but seems like a good idea.) I just knock it out and rinse it, then lock it in partially (leaving the basket in the PF) and raise the lever while turning/wiggling the PF as the water comes out. Idea is to rinse any residual coffee that might have gotten above the dispersion screen as well as coffee grounds on the screen face and around the group gasket and in the raceways. I also pop and inspect/clean the dispersion screen about once a month or so. Ideally it shows little or no coffee residue buildup and that tells you that your rinse technique is good.

With a little patience, I've never had a problem with PF sneeze, even when pulling slow hard pulls on my 2nd Gen machine. If making a cappuccino, I steam after pulling and rest my forearm on the lever, holding it down while steaming. By the time I'm done steaming the pressure is alleviated.

If your pull has a little spongyness due to air above the puck, that helps let you feel when the pressure above the puck is gone. If the pull is rock solid it's a little harder to tell and you need to be extra cautious when loosening the PF. I find it easier to get a rock solid pull on my 2nd gen, and perhaps that's why these machines might be seen as more prone to the sneeze.

Katzer wrote: tried to lift the lever to the point right before it releases water but there is still enough pressure for a sneeze.

That seems really surprising to me, and a bit confusing how that would happen from a basic physics standpoint.

Katzer wrote:tried to lift the lever to the point right before it releases water but there is still enough pressure for a sneeze.

homeburrero wrote:That seems really surprising to me, and a bit confusing how that would happen from a basic physics standpoint.

Thought some more about this while making a coffee, and think I have a better understanding of how this could happen. If the puck has saturated and swelled tightly against the basket below, and against the shower screen above, the pressure in the puck may not dissipate up through the shower screen any faster than it does down through the bottom of the basket, so that even when the lever is raised, the pressure in the PF will take some time to drop. Only solution in that case is waiting, and being very slow and cautious about unlocking the PF.

If you have spongyness in the pull, causing the lever to want to lift back up at the pull finish, and if all that spongyness goes away while the lever is held down, then it makes sense that the air went out through the puck which would indicate there is probably no longer much pressure in there to cause a sneeze.