Pavoni Basket Size Identification

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phillip canuck

#1: Post by phillip canuck »

I owe several people an apology for misleading them on dose sizes for a Europiccola Pavoni basket. A number of times I have said that I can pack 18 grams into my E.P. basket. On that score, I am telling the truth. Many people have told me that the most they could stuff into their baskets was 14 grams. I always wondered why. However, I recently picked up another La Pavoni, same 70's vintage, that came with two baskets - a single and a double. This double, which I now surmise is an authentic Pavoni double, does hold around 14 grams, maximum. I'm now left wondering what kind of monster basket that I have; it can hold 16 grams without tamping very much, and 18 grams if I really stuff it full (highly unusual).

The second interesting bit to come out of all this is the fact that I really like the small single, 9 grams or so in there and I can pull a good shot. I had read from some time that people really didn't like these small baskets.

Someone here recently made a comment (I forget who) that channeling becomes an issue with the larger basket you have (he was talking commercial size). From my experience with these three baskets, I can attest to far less channeling with the smaller sizes. Indeed, some characteristics of my espresso pours that I was attributing to other factors with the monster basket, I now blame on channeling.

If I have caused frustration to you as you tried to compress 15, 16, or 17 grams of finely ground beans into your basket, my apologies. Oops.

-phillip








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KnowGood

#2: Post by KnowGood »

I want that big basket!!! Now I'm going to have to start searching high and low for it - it's not a Elektra basket is it?
Lyndon
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strfish7

#3: Post by strfish7 »

It looks a lot like my Mcal double basket I bought for this purpose...

samgiles

#4: Post by samgiles »

I agree it looks like the Elektra MCal basket. They fit in some pre-millenium PFs and not others so beware of that. Mine sits on the bottom of the PF with the rim slightly higher than the top. I can lock the PF into the grouphead but only just. Apparently with some PFs you can't get the ears into the grouphead so it's useless (unless to drill the bottom out and go bottomless).
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KnowGood

#5: Post by KnowGood »

samgiles wrote: They fit in some pre-millenium PFs and not others so beware of that.
I'm naked, so I should be good.
Lyndon
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the_trystero

#6: Post by the_trystero »

strfish7 wrote:It looks a lot like my Mcal double basket I bought for this purpose...
Ok, so how big a dose can you get in an Mcal double? I have one and with really light beans I can only get 13 to 14 grams without partially compressing the mountain of grinds.
"A screaming comes across the sky..." - Thomas Pynchon

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espressoperson

#7: Post by espressoperson »

FWIW, here's some ancient history on the subject...

Archimedes Challenge - simplest accurate method of calculating basket volume
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homeburrero
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#8: Post by homeburrero »

Here are my measurements of my Millennium double basket:

Internal diameter, measured a few mm below rim - 51.8mm
Internal depth at center - 24.6 mm
External height - 25mm
Diameter of perforated area - 44 mm

Capacity (to brim, no meniscus) - 50 ml

I think this is a stock basket, but no guarantee because I bought it used (a romantica, which has the same portafilter and group as the post-M europiccola and pro.)

I suspect that stock pre-M machines may have less depth than this.

P.S. For quick and easy depth comparison, put a US quarter against the side of the basket under the lip and put the basket on a flat surface. On mine I have a mm or so wiggle room.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

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homeburrero
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#9: Post by homeburrero »

updating this old thread now that I have all 3 pavoni double baskets - the millennium (51mm) double basket is as deep as the Elektra. So millennium baskets and the elektra baskets have about the same max dose, which is nearly 35% more than the stock 49mm pavoni double. Agrees with postings where folks say 14g max in the stock pre-M basket and 19g max in millennium or elektra baskets.

The stock pre-M basket also differs in having a smaller perforated area than the other two. Also, I think the pre-1970 pavonis had a deeper portafilter, and perhaps had deeper baskets than the ~1987 one that I measured.

Here are my measurements:

Double basket dimensions - stock Pavoni Millennium
Internal diameter, measured a few mm below rim - 51.8mm
Internal depth at center - 24.6 mm
External height - 25mm
Diameter of perforated area - 44 mm
Capacity (to brim, no meniscus) - 50 ml
Effective capacity 35.8ml (7mm below rim, calculated)

Double basket dimensions - Elektra Microcasa Leva
Internal diameter, measured a few mm below rim - 49.6mm
Internal depth at center - 25.5 mm
External height - 26mm
Diameter of perforated area - 44 mm
Capacity (to brim, no meniscus) - 50 ml
Effective capacity 36.3ml (7mm below rim, calculated)

Double basket dimensions - stock 80's Pavoni pre-millennium
Internal diameter, measured a few mm below rim - 49.6mm
Internal depth at center - 21 mm
External height - 22mm
Diameter of perforated area - 41 mm
Capacity (to brim, no meniscus) - 40 ml
Effective capacity 26.7ml (7mm below rim, calculated)
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

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yakster
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#10: Post by yakster »

phillip canuck wrote:The second interesting bit to come out of all this is the fact that I really like the small single, 9 grams or so in there and I can pull a good shot. I had read from some time that people really didn't like these small baskets.
Even though I usually pull doubles, I like pulling singles, especially if it's later in the day or I want to pull multiple shots. I like 8 grams in my Millennium single basket, mainly because 7 grams isn't enough to tamp with my normal tamper.

I've used 16 grams in my double, but normally stick with 14. This is a Gaggia Factory branded Millennium.
-Chris

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