Owner experience with Londinium I - Page 74

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
spaz2
Posts: 124
Joined: 14 years ago

#731: Post by spaz2 »

I have, thank you

IMAWriter
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Joined: 19 years ago

#732: Post by IMAWriter replying to spaz2 »

Well, I believe you could have handled this publicly with a little more tact. Insinuations regarding "prototypes' cast aspersions as to the manufactures character and business ethics, which (for me) have never been an issue.
This is the same sort of thing may cause this thread to be locked again.
PLEASE settle this with Reiss off thread.

Personally, I believe you should be upfront, and not couch your accusations in stuff like "for respectful reasons." It allows for too much speculation, which is not fair to those who own or are contemplating a purchase.
Perhaps I'm a bit pro business, as I have one of my own, and being a moderator on CG, I;m always looking for the most positive solution for all.

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peacecup
Posts: 3649
Joined: 19 years ago

#733: Post by peacecup »

Well, it is part of the owner experience :shock:

Seriously, though, Reiss has made his business a public project by being so engaged here and elsewhere. I applaud him for that, but it's not unexpected to have issues like this surface. i personally doubt that he is hiding anything.

We've seen in with other businesses here before. Let's hope for an equitable solution and great espresso all around.

PC
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

IMAWriter
Posts: 3472
Joined: 19 years ago

#734: Post by IMAWriter replying to peacecup »

Jack, all you say is correct. I just pointed out that the manner in which "Spaz's" post was presented perhaps could have been a bit less ;cloak and dagger."
Call me old fashioned.

RoloD
Posts: 99
Joined: 12 years ago

#735: Post by RoloD »

As already said, Reiss has been very open about the development of the machine. I have the very first standard Londinium I off the production line - it works perfectly.

Any problems/changes to the machine have been clearly stated on Reiss' blog. The only problems I'm aware of are superficial ones (the groups left the Italian factory without enough lubrication in them and can squeak a little, first 'plumb-in' kits were missing an adapter) or ones resulting from damage in transit (hence new machines will have the boiled anchored to the frame rather than being supported by pipework). As far as I am aware there have been no functional changes to the machines since the first one.

I don't think it useful to anybody to imply there are 'issues' without stating them.

spaz2
Posts: 124
Joined: 14 years ago

#736: Post by spaz2 »

IMA Writer,
I think Reiss and his manufacturer, Francino, have brought a very good lever machine to the market and they are entitled to make mistakes, just like me. I meant "respectfully" to mean just that: I do respect what they have done in introducing this machine. You are right about my poor choice of words. I didn't need to use the word "prototype". I obviously don't make my living writing.

I suppose I used the word because I am very pissed off and tired of the run around from Francino. I have been working with Reiss since I received the machine. At first blush the problems I found with the machine were a poor fitting drip pan, drip pan frame, main frame sheet metal and some improperly installed thread rivets. Reiss quickly responded to my concerns upon receipt of my photo documentation and sent me replacement parts. But the replacement parts didn't fit; and I believe they didn't fit because the machine was a prototype (in my opinion). It bothered me but I decided to let it go. After another round of replacement parts that didn't fit and with further examination I figured out that the main frame also had construction problems and I gave up. I then sent additional high quality pix illustrating the problems and politely requested that Londinium take back the machine at their expense or compensate me for the machine's lower value. My email detailing this to Reiss was forwarded on to Francino and in return, the owner of Francino's unedited response was forwarded to me in which he rejected the offer, claimed my photos were misleading and offered to send more parts so that I could continue repairing the machine. I expressed my frustration to their response directly to Reiss and I offered to send more pix and Reiss agreed that would be helpful... But when does one stop being a patient supporter/customer and become a fool? An angry fool.

Yesterday morning Reiss emailed his disappointment in my posting and suggested that I ship back the machine for a refund.

I don't know why they chose to ship this particular machine. I believe it was a regrettable mistake, poor judgement, nothing personal, stuff happens. I can only guess that they wanted to get as many machines in service as possible and as soon as possible. I have no reason to suspect that there will be a replay of this event for anyone else. I have not been on here complaining because I was working directly with Reiss and didn't want to add to the attacks Reiss was receiving. Reiss works very hard to sell and promote his product. He has a good product and I'll bet good money that my experience is completely unique.

My apologies to anyone who mistakenly thought I was trying to cleverly undermine the Londinium1 or anyones' ownership pride by the way I stated my request for serial number information. I was trying to make the request in a way that didn't make me look like a person making up stuff to hurt the Londinium1. But my frustration was and is in evidence.

Now I sincerely hope this forum drops this subject and gets on with sharing ideas and positive user experiences.
Everyone makes mistakes and moves on. This has been a reminder for me of what can happen by buying a brand new product. You're on the bleeding edge, it's a chance you take occasionally.

salvatore
Posts: 77
Joined: 11 years ago

#737: Post by salvatore »

spaz2 wrote:Now I sincerely hope this forum drops this subject and gets on with sharing ideas and positive user experiences.
Sorry, and I may be new here, but isn't this the "Owner's experience" thread? Didn't see where it said "Positive Owner's Experiences." :?: The reason I read forums, and have spent so much time reading and researching on this one in particular, is the search for bare-bones, honest-to-God information about making the best possible espresso with the best possible equipment.

I'm not sure you should apologize, just maybe a clear explanation of what happened from the beginning might've been a better course of action. I, for one, appreciate hearing both the good AND bad everyone experiences. Thanks.
"L'unico modo per liberarsi da una tentazione è cedervi." Oscar Wilde

RoloD
Posts: 99
Joined: 12 years ago

#738: Post by RoloD »

I agree - this thread is not only for positive user experience. I think what some here were concerned about was that Tom's previous post implied there were 'issues' without stating what they were - Tom has since expanded and explained his position very clearly.

What is unusual about this particular machine is that the designer has participated in this forum and been very open about the principles behind its manufacture. It is also, as far as I know, unique as espresso machines go in that it combines the enthusiasm and dedication of one small independent company with the engineering expertise of a well established commercial manufacturer. These two factors, perhaps, make the project particularly vulnerable to suggestions that something has gone wrong with early models.

As far as I can determine, Tom's problems are not typical - certainly I am not aware of any similar complaints from any UK owners (which is not an attempt to play down Tom's particular experience).

And anyone who happens to be in London is welcome to have a look at my Londinium I and form their own opinions on the quality of manufacture.

Stefan_E
Posts: 39
Joined: 13 years ago

#739: Post by Stefan_E »

Finally, I will be joining the club! I ordered my Londinium I today :)

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arcus
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#740: Post by arcus »

Congrats! Let's hope Reiss can crank them out fast.

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