Olympia Cremina Temperature Study, Part 2 - Page 5

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tekomino (original poster)

#41: Post by tekomino (original poster) »

IMAWriter wrote:You say your end temp is around 192f.
Thank you. Yes that is temperature of group head as measured outside, so temperature of water inside will be warmer and somewhere at 198°F-202°F. Note as you can see from previous thread that gasket between group-head and boiler plays a role in how much group heats up. New Cremina like mine, have different gasket/thermal block there from old ones so old ones will heat up bit more. Also that can be played with as @bostonbuzz tells us:
bostonbuzz wrote:I think the answer is simply that I have a 1/4" teflon thermal block! (I'd recommend 1/8" to others) When I came home today I took it out, thinking "I don't need this anymore, it just makes it harder to get to the 190s". Thinking things may be a little different, I pulled at 180 and it ended up around 197! (almost 10 degrees more than when the teflon was in) I affirmed the difference with a 190 shot which ended at 207.
Refuse to wing it! http://10000shots.com

IMAWriter
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#42: Post by IMAWriter »

Thanks Denis.
yes I read the quote you included, but as I changed mine last year with an OE "replacement" I'm not exactly sure I remember what I installed.
Maybe I'll go to OE website and see.

Truthfully, I can get several consecutive shots, simply bvy waiting a bit longer each time the boiler light goes off post cycle. The 3rd time i just turn off the Cremina when the light comes on.
After that shot, in the ice water goes the PF! Crude, but effective.

Erics thermometer is working PERFECTLY, though upon re-reading his instructions i was a bit off in placement.
I a bit challenged with diagrams.
Maybe the new"improved" position will solve my tape problems.
I love my Cremina, and only the occasional "what if a Strega" thought gets between me and my Swiss baby.
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com

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farmroast

#43: Post by farmroast »

IMAWriter wrote: I love my Cremina, and only the occasional "what if a Strega" thought gets between me and my Swiss baby.
Been exclusively using the Strega since it arrived. I really like. But more and more I'm missing the Swiss Miss sitting in the corner.

Catching up.
For comparisons sake what is the spot your now putting a stick on tc. How far up on the vertical flat from where it bells and how far away from where the back transitions? I've got a 30 and 36ga
LMWDP #167 "with coffee we create with wine we celebrate"

IMAWriter
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#44: Post by IMAWriter »

Success!.
For MY baby, I've placed the thermistor tip pretty much where John (Bostonbuzz) has his.
(The upper part of the bell, left side, slightly towards the front.)
I believe THAT is the proper place, at least for mine, as the temperatures COORDINATED with the taste impressions I got after 4-5 pulls over a 1/2 hour period. (which got me EXTREMELY caffeine agitated! :lol: )
It appears I need 1 LONG flush to get me FROM about 145f (after bleeding the wand to allow for removal of false pressure) TO 180 or so. My stat is set .8/.95 to facilitate good steam pressure.
Another small flush takes me too high, but I just insert a cold PF and a minute later I'm down to my preferred starting group temp (187f) for Dolce, which I'm pulling for a few days.

After 7 counts up lever, the start of the pull registers 197, and finishes at 198.5. on average.
I'm actually happier at 200f for Dolce, as it's bit sweeter, though the smoky taste is still there, due to all that monsooned bean (over 50%, based on the green version I also purchased)
This 10 degree f upswing in temp seems to correspond relatively to one of the charts posted by Denis, I believe.
I'll have to double check.

I'm still having an issue with the aluminum tape, which wants so unhitch itself off the hot group.

I'm nopt used to being this fussy, but what having Eric's fine gizmo proves to me is that my "temp surfing" technique these past nearly 5 years have been fairly accurate as regards the temps i'm trying to replicate.
Confirmation is nice, and i'm sure this will become even more relevant when i switch to my home roasted SM's Workshop #19 espresso blend, a much fruiter blend than the Dolce.
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com

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tekomino (original poster)

#45: Post by tekomino (original poster) »

IMAWriter wrote: I'm nopt used to being this fussy, but what having Eric's fine gizmo proves to me is that my "temp surfing" technique these past nearly 5 years have been fairly accurate as regards the temps i'm trying to replicate.
Confirmation is nice, and i'm sure this will become even more relevant when i switch to my home roasted SM's Workshop #19 espresso blend, a much fruiter blend than the Dolce.
It's great you got it working! I think most people that stick with Cremina develop technique for managing temperature one way or another. But it takes long time to do that when you just get the machine and it requires taste calibrated for espresso to be able to adjust it by taste alone. Which I suspect turns off many people and leads to Cremina being abondonded in cellars.

It was frustrating for me when I first started using Cremina. I had glimpses of great shots it can make, maybe one in twenty, but had very hard time with consistency. With temp strip or digital thermometer I think people just starting out can get up and running very quickly and for "seasoned" Creminologist :wink: it allows for even greater consistency. I rarely pull bad shot on Cremina these days.
Refuse to wing it! http://10000shots.com

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AndyPanda

#46: Post by AndyPanda »

For those of you having trouble with the tape sticking to the bell, this is how I've had my thermometer mounted. Just a "hair tie" and a small square of high density foam to press the bead against the group and insulate against ambient air cooling the outside of the bead. My temps read a bit higher (I suspect) than you would get with the aluminum tape - and I have the bead pretty close to the back. I start my shots with group reading 185-187F and group is reading 197-199F at end of shot - going by taste this gives me close to right brew temps for this coffee (guessing 202-204F brew temps) ... when I try 175F as starting group temp it starts to taste too cool (sour).


genecounts

#47: Post by genecounts »

Eric's thermometer makes a huge difference to me and has led to a fast temperature learning curve. I have my thermisterter precisely where Eric recommends, back of bell under curvature of horizontal piece.

The aluminum foil is the weak point. I have a huge roll and put ten times more than Eric supplies with the kit. It still loosens after a few weeks.

AndyPanda is onto something here. I really like his insulation to defeat ambient air. Wish I knew what material he used for his "hair tie" but I'll come up with something.

Rob really brings a lot to this discussion. I like where he takes off on:

"After 7 counts up lever, the start of the pull registers 197, and finishes at 198.5. on average.
I'm actually happier at 200f for Dolce, as it's bit sweeter, though the smoky taste is still there, due to all that monsooned bean (over 50%, based on the green version I also purchased)
This 10 degree f upswing in temp seems to correspond relatively to one of the charts posted by Denis, I believe.
I'll have to double check"

That brings practicality to mere theory.
And Dennis, what can we say. I'm still going back reading his stuff.
Thanks guys!

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AndyPanda

#48: Post by AndyPanda »

The "hair tie" is simply one of those fabric covered elastic ties for pulling hair back into a ponytail. I expect I will need to replace the elastic tie every month or two as they lose elasticity even just when using them for your hair. But a whole pack of them is cheap:
http://www.amazon.com/Scunci-Effortless ... B0045H854W

The insulation foam I cut from one of those squeeze ball stress reliever balls that many companies hand out to their employees - I don't know the name of the foam material but it isn't bothered by the heat and is very stiff, springy foam.

genecounts

#49: Post by genecounts »

Thanks Andy. My daughter had one that was a 5-ply multi-weave tie, enough to cover the thermister and provide great insulation.

Much more accurate read-out and compact. First time I have seen a temp of 202 degrees in awhile. This is 202 degrees at second cup with a pressure setting of .85. Actually Doug said he set it at .90 but have been unable to get that reading with his gauge on my end.

I'm a happy man!