All of this talk about the Londinium Vectis got me to thinking about my Cremina SL's group. Is it the same design as the original Club group or are there differences? Baldheadracing mentions in another thread that the Club's spring was 4 bar. I believe my SL spring is 6 bar. Is this true and are there other differences? They look very similar to me.

The club is similar to ponte vecchio Lusso in size. Club style machines tend to be larger than most old domestic machines. Made for light catering more than just home use. Assume larger boiler. Definitely low pressure spring.

From the looks of the SL it is a modified cremina 67 body, and therefore more home machine sized with similar boiler etc.
The grouphead is a new design as I understood it.

Hardly an expert on Creminas though. Just my take. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Source thread for the 4 bar statement: Olympia Express Club: Installing a stronger spring Mine feels like more than 4 bar, but the spring could have been replaced.

The shower screen on the SL is definitely different. The Club uses the same OMG-they-are-expensive shower screen as the Cremina '67.

From photos, I think that the two groups are different castings. The distance between the mounting flange and the group proper looks to be different from photos, my Club is 3/4", and the SL looks to be more than that. The top of the Club's group is flat, but the SL's looks to be a bit convex.

Club boiler is 3.0 litre horizontal; SL is 1.8l vertical. The SL's group is closely coupled to the boiler; the Club has a neck coming out of the boiler to the rear of the group.

A few additions to what has already been written:

- The Cremina SL has more stainless steel parts vs the club which is more traditional in it's choice of metal.

- I find it easier to do maintenance on the SL mostly because of the group to boiler gasket which is teflon I believe. Removing/reinstalling the group is a breeze. The Oly Club group to boiler flange gasket is paper like you find on E61's or on boiler lids and heating elements. They don't like the extra manipulation and don't seal as well after you've removed the group. It's not an easy gasket to source (Migg Frei is pretty much the only source for Club parts) and it needs to be changed every maintenance or so. Doing the piston maintenance without removing the group first is a huge pain. Much easier to remove the group for both the Club and the SL. Really wish Olympia would've designed the group more like the Elektra Mcal or the old Samar Club.

- As for results, I've never done a straight comparison but the Oly Club is a bit of a unicorn. The soft spring (new one from Migg) seems too weak on paper to produce a proper extraction. However, it pulls one hell of a shot. When trying to replicate a 4-5 bar declining curve profile on a La Pavoni, it's nowhere close. Unicorn.
The SL is quite capable too, no doubt. Adding an extra spring to get the pressure peaking at 8 bar sounds quite interesting too.

- From my experience and unscientific testing, they both overheat on back to back pulls. No matter the pstat setting. However, a cold portafilter is enough to bring the group back to temp.

LObin wrote:The Oly Club group to boiler flange gasket is paper like you find on E61's or on boiler lids and heating elements. They don't like the extra manipulation and don't seal as well after you've removed the group. It's not an easy gasket to source (Migg Frei is pretty much the only source for Club parts) and it needs to be changed every maintenance or so. Doing the piston maintenance without removing the group first is a huge pain. Much easier to remove the group for both the Club and the SL. Really wish Olympia would've designed the group more like the Elektra Mcal or the old Samar Club.

I make the Teflon group to boiler gasket - it takes about 5 minutes for the Club. I just bought another sheet of the stuff; the only downside is the price. It doesn't make sense to buy one sheet for just this gasket. I also make boiler gasket out - the group head gasket comes from the inner material removed for the boiler.

I just changed the spring on Club #1 to use one of Migg's springs. Migg says they are OEM springs. For comparison Club #2 is a 1978 which was unused until I bought it a couple of years ago. I pulled Club#2 spring and measured against the a new spring from Migg with a dial caliper and they are identical. Side by side pull of new spring in Club #1 with Club #2 and they feel identical.

I have never pulled the group head for the Club to do maintenance. I bought a small machinist jack on Amazon, and found a 2"x4" cut to tray length fits perfectly to make a very stable platform for the jack. Makes it super easy.

I just finished rebuilding Club #3, the one I acquired from russel earlier this year. I will take some pictures and share some things I discovered on this build in the near future.

I am really surprised to hear the Club is temperature unstable. My experience mirrors LeverAddict, who posted his epic rebuild story back in 2016 or so.

I monitored the group temperature of my former 79 and found that the group would go up by a few degrees after every pull and would settle at a higher temperature vs the idling temp, prior to the pull.

I'm not stating that it's not temp stable though... Nothing like a Pre-mill La Pavoni where the group temp keeps rising, whether you pull a shot or not. Way more stable actually but like most smaller lever group without anything in the design that helps the group cool down after a pull, the mass of the group is too low to create enough of a heat sink to bring it's temperature back to the same pre-pull idling temp.

Tested with a MaTer pstat set to 0.75 and an ambient temperature around 21c.

jwCrema wrote:
I have never pulled the group head for the Club to do maintenance. I bought a small machinist jack on Amazon, and found a 2"x4" cut to tray length fits perfectly to make a very stable platform for the jack. Makes it super easy.

Hi Jack,
If you get a chance, would you be able to put up a couple of pics of how the small machinist jack and the tray work with a Club group?

Thanks,
Paolo

Paolo wrote:Hi Jack,
If you get a chance, would you be able to put up a couple of pics of how the small machinist jack and the tray work with a Club group?

Happy to! Look for it this weekend.

LObin wrote:I monitored the group temperature of my former 79 and found that the group would go up by a few degrees after every pull and would settle at a higher temperature vs the idling temp, prior to the pull.

Interesting! I have one of those IR temp gauges and will try it out.

Hey all, getting to this thread a bit late after a busy week. As a new 75 Club owner, I have nothing especially useful to add; however, it might be helpful as a future research point to see another voice affirm, in addition to the Club godfathers above , that the shots this machine produces are absolutely amazing and don't seem possible at these pressures. A unicorn, indeed!

If anyone has an SL in the DMV area and wants to pull some shots side-by-side, let me know. It would be a fun experiment.

Have to give a shout out to Nino, Jonathan, Jack, and Will for all the Club (and SL) knowledge they shared with me.

Cheers,