Odyssey Espresso (Argos Lever prototype) - Page 24

#231: Post by **truemagellen** » August 4th, 2021, 7:50 am

Amberale wrote:The spring is seated inside the piston and is longer than it appears in some photos.
Ross has said that it has 1 inch of travel.
Given a 58mm group that is about 66ml of potential volume.

66 would be great

#232: Post by **JohnB.** » August 4th, 2021, 8:21 am

megamixman wrote:
Isn't 45g out hard even on big commercial group levers like the Bosco, Profitec Pro 800 and the LR?

truemagellen wrote:It is around 60 with a healthy preinfusion on those machines. You terminate shots to your volume liking by removing the cup.

You'd have to let the preinfusion drip into the cup quite awhile to accumulate 60g weight with a Bosco. Normal max volume with my 2011 Sorrento is 38g-40g. I'm told the more recent versions will hit 45g. Since my normal shots are in the 28g-30g range it's not an issue for me.

#233: Post by **TenLayers** » August 4th, 2021, 9:38 am

From the specs on the website, maximum volume is 55 grams.

August 4th, 2021, 10:33 am

megamixman wrote:Isn't 45g out hard even on big commercial group levers like the Bosco, Profitec Pro 800 and the LR?

Volume out depends on pre-infusion pressure due to compression of the air caught at the top of the group cylinder. A pump pre-infusion machine like the Londinium R or Strega running at 6 bar can pull bigger shots over a machine pre-infusing at line pressure at 3-4 bar like a Kees Idro, which in turn can make bigger shots than a dipper-fed Pro 800 or Bosco running around 1.0-1.2 bar. Note pre-infusion pressure affects extraction pressures due to the difference in where the lever catches.

Pre-infusion time also affects volume as the pre-infusion soaks the puck. A finer grind needing a 30 second pre-infusion may have a bigger potential output than a coarser grind that starts dripping in 5 seconds.

Regardless, I don't think that small groups (to date) can consistently give the same taste as heavy commercial lever groups. I have both and they are both great in their own ways, but it has been my experience that only commercial groups can consistently deliver the same declining temperature profile. (It can be argued that a flat temperature profile is preferable to a declining temperature profile - witness the popularity of double boiler machines - but that's a taste preference.)

#235: Post by **Welshdog** » August 4th, 2021, 2:46 pm

I'm very interested in the Argos. However, my water looks like this:

Calcium - 14
Magnesium - 15
Hardness - 98
ph - 9.6
alkalinity - 61
Total Dissolved Solids - 158

So this should be water that causes scaling, but I have a Bonavita used for years and it has zero scale. I only put in water that has gone through my GE water filter built into the fridge, but that is just for taste mostly. Our taps do not have scale either. Still, given those numbers, I assume mixing half distilled, half tap in this machine would be wise?

August 4th, 2021, 2:56 pm

Welshdog wrote:I'm very interested in the Argos. However, my water looks like this:...

Do you know the chlorides? (not chlorine)

#237: Post by **Jonk** » August 4th, 2021, 3:00 pm

If your kettle is free from scale you shouldn't need to worry about it. Also, isn't the Argos going to be mostly stainless steel? As long as the water tastes fine, I don't see why it would be a problem to descale every now and then. Unlike old aluminum levers..

#238: Post by **Welshdog** » August 4th, 2021, 3:18 pm

baldheadracing wrote:Do you know the chlorides? (not chlorine)

Chloride is 39 mg/L

August 4th, 2021, 3:26 pm

I have utilized 5 gallon replacement jugs from Home Depot which are reverse osmosis with a mineral profile added. $13 I think new and the refills are $7 or so. They're the blue jugs usually on top of dispensers in offices, they also sell a suction spout for $10 which has been going strong for a year or more now. I pretty much use them for everything, most baking, drinking, coffee, tea, lemonade... I find them convenient as I'm often right near Home Depot.

My EKG kettle does not have a spec on it since I switched, looks like I just took it out of the box inside.

August 4th, 2021, 4:46 pm

Welshdog wrote:Chloride is 39 mg/L

The ideal level is zero. However, based on the La Marzocco Linea Mini recommendation noted in the linked thread below, over 50 is worth treating in a home-use application.

It all boils

down to how careful you want to be. Myself, I'm very careful with an $8000 machine with a stainless steel boiler; perhaps (if I order) not so much with an $800 machine; and I didn't bother with an $80 kettle. (FWIW, my Stagg EKG has one visible pit after four years of very soft tap water with 5ppm chloride.)

Chloride in Water - Recommended Acceptable Ranges
Boiler-safe level of chlorides (and other compounds) in water