Odyssey Argos owner experience - Page 28

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
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SteveRhinehart
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#271: Post by SteveRhinehart »

Every machine is Scaced during QC, pulling four back to back shots. The results are included with your machine. Mine were 91.0, 90.8, 90.5, and 91.1. The sheet says the set point was 90 C for the tests.
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ende42
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#272: Post by ende42 »

I think +0.5 - +1.1°C is really impressive!

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Jake_G
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#273: Post by Jake_G »

Here is a representative Scace test from a machine:

Here is a zoom in of the the pull minus the initial infill ramp:


This is the same data, just zoomed in to highlight variation and the declining temperature profile that is characteristic of lever machines.
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pizzaman383
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#274: Post by pizzaman383 »

How much time is there between those shots? The shorter the between shot interval is the more impressive that is.
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bgn
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#275: Post by bgn »

I expected a pressure decline profile with the lever, but I thought with the different way that this machine measures and manages temperatures, at the group instead of at the boiler, I thought that there might not be a temperature decline in the shot profile. But ten degrees over 40 seconds is relatively small.

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Jake_G
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#276: Post by Jake_G »

pizzaman383 wrote:How much time is there between those shots? The shorter the between shot interval is the more impressive that is.

:wink:
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Jake_G
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#277: Post by Jake_G »

bgn wrote:I expected a pressure decline profile with the lever, but I thought with the different way that this machine measures and manages temperatures, at the group instead of at the boiler, I thought that there might not be a temperature decline in the shot profile. But ten degrees over 40 seconds is relatively small.
The group is mounted to a plate that serves as the top cap of the boiler, and hot water is pushed into the group when the piston is raised. As such, there is no heat source in the group beyond the water that came from the bottom of the boiler, and the temperature declines once the water begins shedding energy to the group.

Subsequent shots have a hotter group and a lower boiler temperature to maintain a similar temperature profile. You can see that there is slightly less heat loss on shots 3 & 4 compared to shots 1 & 2, but they are four quite similar.
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bgn
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#278: Post by bgn replying to Jake_G »

Thanks for that. I'm not sure why I thought that this machine had a heater in the group.

vit
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#279: Post by vit »

bgn wrote:But ten degrees over 40 seconds is relatively small.
... by standards of absolute entry level espresso machines at least ... :roll:

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baldheadracing
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#280: Post by baldheadracing replying to vit »

There are always the questions of when to start measuring temperature in lever machines, and when to stop measuring. As such, it is the shot-to-shot variation that is of interest.

For example, the commercial spring lever group machines without group heaters that I've run on a Scace drop about 10C over 40-50 seconds when the machine is in as-delivered specification and I was using the WBC/WCE measurement protocol (as much as is practical). I have no idea what measurement protocol Odyssey is using, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't like WBC/WCE with its minimum one hour warm-up. This is not a diss; the WBC/WCE protocol is used to evaluate commercial pump machines used ... commercially. However, the extraction phase in a commercial spring lever is traditionally about half that time, and the extraction phase has about half of that temperature drop (~5C), i.e., if one is pulling the cup away when the extraction pressure is around 4 bar, does it really matter what happens to water temperature afterwards?

(In smaller lever machines like a la Pavoni or Cremina or MCaL, one can influence the brew water temperature curve with how one uses the machine to a much greater extent than commercial-sized groups, as their 'domestic' groups are small/light enough to be relatively unstable when in a boiler-mounted dipper configuration. This makes comparisons to/between these machines based solely on temperature measurement mostly useless, as one can manipulate the machine to produce a declining, flat, or increasing brew temperature profile.)
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