New La Pavoni Esperto Line - Page 2

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
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chopinhauer

Postby chopinhauer » Jan 09, 2019, 3:31 am

Just going by the small pictures these machines seem to have a pressure profiling gauge a la Naked espresso. Given one can buy one of those for $300 this then is hardly a reason to upgrade given, I imagine, that La Pavoni haven't done many real changes to the internals of the group. They seem to be the Professional/Stradaveri with more bling and taken to a slightly higher level in one aspect. (If they have made real changes to the group then I will happily retract this).
As for the comparisons to domestic spring levers, what's the point? La Pav just don't do that type of machine. Their domestic line for the past few decades has been manual levers with all the pros and cons that manual levers can give you (and there are many, many pros especially once you know your way around such machines). Being a long time Pavoni user I believe it is a shame that their development in domestic machines has been one of continually opting for appearance over substance. If they wanted to there is no reason they couldn't, at least, try to match the Cremina in preformance, while looking prettier in doing so and still coming in well under the latter's 'Swiss-made' price tag.
LMWDP #027

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radu

Postby radu » Jan 09, 2019, 9:42 am

chopinhauer wrote:these machines seem to have a pressure profiling gauge a la Naked espresso.


It looks like a literal rip-off from Naked espresso. They even took the manometer dial off and made it naked. So far it seems it's a normal Pavoni with a Naked kit clone and a temp strip. I wonder what's their plan with the temp strips, since they only last a couple of months.
LMWDP #616

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redbone

Postby redbone » replying to radu » Jan 09, 2019, 9:52 am

The idea of who first added a piston pressure gauge has been debated. First ever lever pull pressure mod N.espresso does deserve accolaids for reviving the and popularizing the idea by making a kit available. The no dial idea is a little circumspect though as I believe it was N.espresso implementation. Not sure if a new utilization of old established technology could be patented anyway.
Between order and chaos there is espresso.
Semper discens.


Rob
LMWDP #549

kenyabob

Postby kenyabob » Jan 11, 2019, 10:19 am

Based on what I have seen in newer La Pavoni models and read in over 10 years of HB membership, I'd say that (new or used) you'd be flushing your cash down the loo.


This feels a bit hyperbolic. The new ones have a teflon sleeve in the grouphead in order to control the temp for that famous 'third shot', which many people dont like since its plastic and it can break. That said, I'm guessing they are still fine machines if a decently priced lever machine is what you are looking for. The HB community gets to be nitpicky because its what we are here to do, but I dont think that buying a new pavoni is a total waste.

OldNuc

Postby OldNuc » Jan 11, 2019, 11:30 am

With proper operation the 1st and 3rd version LaPavoni pulling multiple shots in succession is quite doable. The 2nd generation is intended for rapid heatup to temperature and pulling a single shot. The 2nd generation may be manipulated to get a 2nd shot if you are only pulling them for a single consumer. None of them are really suited for use at a dinner party of 8. With lots of skill it is possible to get multiple shots from any generation La Pavoni.

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drgary
Team HB

Postby drgary » Jan 11, 2019, 1:42 pm

The second generation can pull multiple shots by toggling power on and off, keeping boiler pressure low, and using half pumps to get the group to the right temperature. To do this you need a sight glass pressure gauge and a way to measure external group temperature.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

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guijan12

Postby guijan12 » Jan 11, 2019, 3:28 pm

I pull 6 shots in a row with my pre-millenium LPP.
Only mod is the cooling ring around the group head and some tweaking of the presurestat.
Boiler pressure is now appr. 1 bar, and I need a warming flush for the first shot.
The grouphead temperaure stays around 94C after that.
Regards,

Guido

jtrops

Postby jtrops » Jan 11, 2019, 7:59 pm

I have an early millennium machine, and I have had all of the known problems with this generation of Pavoni: plastic piston falling apart, cylinder sleeve cracked. So, it now has a brass piston and a new sleeve. In all it has been a reliable machine. I would buy again in a heartbeat if I needed a new machine. It is very easy to work on, and maintain. The original sleeve lasted 15 years before it needed replacement. I had a new one in the drawer just in case, so it wasn't out of commission for more than the 20 minutes it took to tear it down, and put the new sleeve in.

I also live at 2000' elevation which translates to very stabile temperature. Once it comes up to temp It stays within a few degrees of 90c. It is very easy to bring it up with a little lever pull, or bring it down with a cold PF for a few seconds. In other words, altitude plays into the equation as well.

Back to the original topic: Esperto...
I really like the new lever arm.

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drgary
Team HB

Postby drgary » Jan 12, 2019, 2:20 am

I would want to know more about the build quality, especially at those price points. Also there is no built-in electronic thermometer, only temperature strips. That surprises me. The Esperto is more expensive than the Elektra Microcasa a Leva, which is well built and excellent all around, and it is similarly priced to the Bezzera Strega, which is much larger but is also much more machine for that budget. The Microcasa has equivalent bling and the Strega has a commercial group and lots of versatility. The ones I mentioned are spring levers. You can get a used Olympia Express Cremina in very good shape for less for a manual with similar function and great build quality, and that machine won't lose value. You can add a pressure gauge and piston pressure gauge and temperature strips or a group thermometer if you like. But you get Bauhaus instead of bling.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

bas

Postby bas » Jan 12, 2019, 7:03 am

I am still liking that other 2nd generation temp mod discussed here:

Heat control mod for 2nd Generation La Pavoni Levers

Basically this mod converts a 2nd generation machine to 3rd generation one. That means a concersion from a steam vented to hot water saturated group.

I am running my 2nd generation Pro at 1.0 bar max pressure. The only thing I need is a cold PF. Same workflow as with the Millenium I had.