NEW KvdW Lever Group! - Page 5

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
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beer&mathematics

#41: Post by beer&mathematics »

Really curious with the obsession with a 1 group vs a 2 group for the commercial sized machines. I mean, I get it for a machine like the Cremina (manual) or Club (spring) since these are made for the home, but I feel like once you get into Speedster/Mirage territory you are in an elite field and likely don't have space/WAF issues. How much space does having 1 group instead of two make on a Mirage (width-wise)? I can't image it's a deal breaker. Plus the benefits of two groups is obvious :mrgreen:
LMWDP #431

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dominico
Team HB

#42: Post by dominico »

To be fair, I had to knock a wall out of my house and run a new 220 line to have space to fit my two group machine, but I still did it! :D
http://bit.ly/29dgjDW
Il caffè è un piacere, se non è buono che piacere è?

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EddyQ

#43: Post by EddyQ »

beer&mathematics wrote: Plus the benefits of two groups is obvious :mrgreen:
The Mirage is a pretty big box and those groups stand far too tall for under a counter. So the machine needs its own counter. But once you have that, it isn't taking much space from a room. As you say, a single group version, if one existed, wouldn't be a lot different. Maybe 6" off the width?

As I said earlier, I really like having two groups. But there are a few downsides. First, you got twice as many things that can go wrong. Second, you got twice the maintenance/repair bill.

Simple things like lubing the gaskets or replacing gaskets is twice. And even though you don't use a group, the gaskets seem to go just as fast (although the silicone ones I now have are not wearing out, but need lube them every 3 months). But since the Kees machines are designed for commercial use, the repair is really simple and quick. I never shut it down to do work on a group. And it has a nice ball valve for draining the boiler if needed. The steam wand valve seals can be serviced while the boiler is up to pressure as well. But I never shut it off. The heater is 3300W and comes on 6sec every minute. So the average power is like 330W. That is pretty high for electrical usage. A single group likely will be less and likely take less energy to warm. So you might get away with shutting it down between use. But other than summer, the higher electric costs is offset somewhat by lower gas heating bill.

I find the machine isn't aging a bit. It is 8 years old and doesn't look more than a day old.
LMWDP #671

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EddyQ

#44: Post by EddyQ »

dominico wrote:To be fair, I had to knock a wall out of my house and run a new 220 line to have space to fit my two group machine, but I still did it! :D
My dad had boats as a hobby. Enough said.
LMWDP #671

gavijal

#45: Post by gavijal »

I wander if it's 4.5 times better then a ASC Vostok?

Marcelnl
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#46: Post by Marcelnl » replying to gavijal »

On that note, is that ASC Vostok a gazillion times better than a Cafelat Robot, or a used Peppina...or....?
LMWDP #483

gavijal

#47: Post by gavijal » replying to Marcelnl »

You can't compare Robot and Vostok, but you can compare to commercial lever machines with more or less similar spec.

Marcelnl
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#48: Post by Marcelnl » replying to gavijal »

Well, why not, unless you specify on what basis you make the comparison they are all machines that produce espresso ;-)
LMWDP #483

gavijal

#49: Post by gavijal »

Not really but ok. I'm asking because I'm in market for one, and I'm thinking does it make sense to pay 4,5 times more for few features.

LObin

#50: Post by LObin » replying to gavijal »

I guess it depends how important those features are to you.

As far as I know, except the LM leva X, no other commercial lever offer this kind of control over the spring pressure. That's unique.
LMWDP #592