New domestic lever espresso machine with commercial group

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RoloD

#1: Post by RoloD » Jul 22, 2012, 6:44 pm

Reiss of Londinium coffee is developing this spring lever machine. Built in the UK (apart from the Italian commercial group) with a thermosyphon and three and a half minute warm-time, looks like it's going to be a really interesting machine. If it lives up to its ideals I think he's going to sell a lot of them:

http://londiniumespresso.com/blogs/lond ... resso-blog
http://londiniumespresso.com/blogs/lond ... log?page=2

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bostonbuzz

#2: Post by bostonbuzz » Jul 22, 2012, 8:35 pm

Looks very interesting. I'm curious to see if it's smaller than the giant strega. NOTE: the boiler is ready to deliver espresso in 3.5m like most HX machines, but there is absolutely no way that the huge grouphead is ready for at least 20m unless it's electronically heated. He is very much opposed to cooling flushes http://londiniumespresso.com/blogs/lond ... -balls-run. Can anyone explain to me how to make a HX that doesn't require cooling flushes (or name one outside a café that doesn't need one)? :?: My understanding is that the strega needs a short cooling flush, but could it be engineered so that it wouldn't? I guess making the thermosiphon larger or smaller would make it be perfectly in balance, no?
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kitt

#3: Post by kitt » Jul 23, 2012, 1:22 am

This is my take on it (could be wrong) The Strega is a HX, the Londinium is a Thermosyphon. HXs end up with super hot water sitting in the HX tube, thermosyphons are constantly circulating thru the pipes and maintaining a more usable temperature.There is also the Heat sink effect of the lever group to consider.Most HXs are used on pump machines where the group is kept at brew temp or close.With a lever, its designed to lower the water to brew temp when used correctly.If you open port flush on a lever with no p/f in place you run the risk of quickly losing that heat-sink effect and overheating the group

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peacecup

#4: Post by peacecup » Jul 23, 2012, 2:41 am

I would not want to get into a debate with Reiss, but I'm not sure I'd agree with all he writes in the "Londinium I - primary objective" section. But it's great to see that they are developing another home lever machine, and I hope it turns out well- it certainly looks like it has great potential.

PC
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michaelbenis

#5: Post by michaelbenis » Jul 23, 2012, 3:58 am

This has the potential to be a great machine. There's certainly no doubt that a lot of experience, expertise and enthusiasm are going into its development. i think it in many ways came out of Reiss's experience of the Italian group used on the Bosco and on the Kees idrocompresso (with variations). He has been very enthusiastic about how much more delineated a profile it can achieve than the Cremina, of which he has always been a great fan. The idea is to get that group performing consistently at its bess in as small and as convenient a format possible without sacrificing build quality, durability or ease of maintenance. He's setting high goals here and is very much a no-compromise man, so this is a very exciting project in my view.
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Londinium Espresso

#6: Post by Londinium Espresso » Jul 23, 2012, 12:41 pm

thanks for posting here roland - i'll post some images at the end of the month when we receive the pre-production machine

it will also be available with a 'plumb-in' kit, but the pump will still be utilised to load the boiler - this ensures your line-fed machine will load the boiler even if you have low line pressure.

please understand that the pump is only being used to load the boiler, therefore it will not run every time you pull a shot, probably every 20th shot or so

i dislike having to use an electric pump as much as anyone, but i think it is preferable to have a reservoir for quick, easy & safe refilling, rather than directly refilling the boiler as you do on a Cremina, where you have to lose the pressure, carefully open & fill, recap the boiler, and then wait for it to get back up to temperature and the risk of steam burns

with a commercial spring lever the chassis has to be much longer to stop it tipping over anyway, and some extra weight is welcome, so why not keep the boiler small so it heats up quickly and supplement that with a reservoir?

not everyone agrees on this point, but you can only keep some of the people happy some of the time...

it is an integrated HX-thermosiphon design, so there is no static plug of water to adopt the temp of the boiler, hence there will be no need to run cooling flushes. check the sketch on our blog if you would like to see a visual.

instead of an HX that runs through the boiler to heat cold water, Londinium I HX-TS is fed water from the boiler and cools it to the optimal brew temperature by circulating it out to the (relatively) cool group, which is continuously losing heat to the surrounding air. the HX section where the TS runs back through the boiler heats the cooled water returning from the group back up a bit, before it is sent back out to the group again.

as with any thermosiphon is has a tap in the circuit to regulate the rate at which the water circulates, the faster it is allowed to circulate, the hotter it gets & vice versa. this tap will be correctly set at the factory.

there will be a basic model (stainless housing) and a more expensive model with glass panels so you can see what i think is the attractive sight of a clear coat copper boiler, solid teak knobs & handles (from the same guys who do the woodwork for Range Rover i believe).

we might even do some teak veneer over the stainless casing, but lets focus on the stuff that matters first.

we'll make it to the best of our ability - there's nothing high tech involved, but i hope we can show the difference that some first class engineering (not me i hasten to add, but a talented mechanical engineer with more than 20 years experience in designing & building espresso machines) can make to the performance of old tech.

as you might expect, the biggest challenge has been stopping it tipping itself over with the strength of the spring

240V - 2850W
240V - 2400W(NZ & AUS)
110V - 1400W

we'll ship at cost to anywhere a courier will go

on sale September

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bostonbuzz

#7: Post by bostonbuzz » Jul 23, 2012, 1:19 pm

One thing I'm still struggling to understand is the brew path. On an E-61 HX, water is pumped in from the tank/plumb straight through the thermosiphon. On this machine, the water pumped to the group (through the thermosiphon) originates from the boiler (through some tricky valve I suppose that opens somewhere above the 1.x bar that the steam boiler is at). Is this normal in some other machines or totally new? I guess my understanding of HX is behind since I've been in lever land for so long.
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jonny

#8: Post by jonny » Jul 23, 2012, 2:56 pm

It sounds like it is dipper? Although heat is exchanged it does not sound like this is what we refer to as an HX lever.

TitoM

#9: Post by TitoM » Jul 23, 2012, 10:30 pm

Quoted here
Londinium I will set a new benchmark in engineering excellence for domestic espresso machines and will utilise excellent materials with best in class fit and finish
Congratulations in advance for bringing the Londinium I machine to market. The success of the Strega proves that there is a viable niche for modern lever machines designed specifically for home users (wrt footprint, number of shots, reservoir).

Just a quick dimension comparo for us still stuck on the English system ;)

Londinium 1 (2.3L) = 14.8" (W) x 11.8" (H, excl lever) x 19.7" (D)
Quickmill Achille (4.5L) - 13.9" (W) x 30.3 (H, incl lever) x 19.7" (D)
Bosco Sorrento 1 Group (6L) - 20" (W) x 18" (H, excl lever) x 20" (D)
Bezzera Strega (2L) - 13" (W) x 28 (H, incl lever) x 17.7" (D)

Btw, is the "1" an indication of the number of groups or the first in a series? :)
Also, will it be much slower coming to temp on the 110V version?
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kitt

#10: Post by kitt » Jul 24, 2012, 12:22 am

bostonbuzz wrote:One thing I'm still struggling to understand is the brew path. On an E-61 HX, water is pumped in from the tank/plumb straight through the thermosiphon. On this machine, the water pumped to the group (through the thermosiphon) originates from the boiler (through some tricky valve I suppose that opens somewhere above the 1.x bar that the steam boiler is at). Is this normal in some other machines or totally new? I guess my understanding of HX is behind since I've been in lever land for so long.
I think the confusion may be because the sketch shows the thermosyphon set-up for a Pump machine, with a pump fed HX.If you used this set-up on a lever group, you would have to run the pump every time you drew water from the group.I believe in the Londinium the pump will only lead to boiler fill valve.The thermosyphon will have a hole in the pipe inside the boiler to draw water for the thermosyphon/grouphead.This is the same set-up as in my Vintage Faema Lambro (called an open thermosyphon)
If you check this thread, you'll see the lambro boiler with the thermosyphon pipe with a hole in it

Faema lambro 1970 - stripdown begins