New domestic lever espresso machine with commercial group - Page 8

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
jonny

#71: Post by jonny »

Reiss, no apology necessary as no wrong was done. Like I said, I just get cautious about things like this. Nevertheless I'm sure Londinium 1 will be fabulous! Also, the fact that you are involved with us here and take the time to talk to the "little guys" (us) really says something. Very few companies will do as you have done. Thanks for giving us your time and attention.

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another_jim
Team HB

#72: Post by another_jim »

jonny wrote:I am a bit surprised that Reiss is so passionately against the Strega! I have never used a Strega or even seen one in person, but his statements do sound a little exaggerated. Like it uses a pump because of the "no guts spring"?
The entire blog post is bull based on hearsay. Sadly, it smacks of malice and of drumming up business in a completely unethical manner. It would be best removed.
  • The Strega has an added spring inside the standard Astoria spring. The standard Astoria spring is more powerful by itself than the Bosco spring. The overall effect is that the Strega's spring pressure begins at 10.5 bar, and even at the full upstroke is still at 5.5 bar (which is why I retard it most of the time).
  • The pump is a standard Ulka, and when properly aligned is as quiet as in all other properly designed vibe pump machines.
  • The cartirdge heater is not designed to create shot temperature stability, but to maintain the group at around 90C. This creates a declining temperature profile and protects the taste in case of an extended, ristretto shot, which the design of the machine encourages.
  • The pump is designed to ramp up the water in the group to a 9 to 11 bar preinfusion pressure prior the shot beginning to flow. The Bosco group is a sipper and will preinfuse at one bar. HX based lever groups preinfuse at line pressure or the pressure of the assist pump. Mr Bezzera, the current owner of the company, who unlike Mr Reiss, is the great-grandson of the person who invented espresso machines, and whose company has been building machines ever since then, communicated to us that they had initially worked with a low pressure pump to emulate the 3 bar line pressure; but preferred the taste derived from filling the group with a higher pressure pump. Anyone who regularly does the Fellini move on a Pavoni or Cremina will appreciate the value of higher preinfusion pressures; and it is perfectly easy to cut the pump early on the Strega and use a lower pressure preinfusion should one desire.
  • Instead of Mr Reiss congratulating himself on the sharply reduced shot making options of his design; he would be better advised to stay with the actual selling point of the proposed machine: that it is an old school commercial lever machine, rather than a hybrid like the Strega. There are many who prefer this; so the machine will find its market without the need for making such disgraceful posts
Jim Schulman

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peacecup

#73: Post by peacecup »

+1
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

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peacecup

#74: Post by peacecup »

Apologies in advance for the OT post:
This has not been my experience. The 49mm/51mm double baskets on home levers (Pavoni, Elektra MCaL, Gaggia Factory) do not produce particularly beautiful pours with bottomless PFs.
I'm referring only to the comparison between one 58 mm home lever (mini gaggia), and the two smallest home levers, the 45 mm Caravel and Sama/Ponte Vecchio. My limited experience with the 49 mm Pavoni agrees with John's.

The topic of "why 58mm basket size became the standard" is certainly an intriguing one, however. It is somewhat on topic, because the developers of the Londononium state that there is no substitute for cc.
PC
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

joatmon

#75: Post by joatmon »

another_jim wrote: Mr Bezzera, the current owner of the company, who unlike Mr Reiss, is the great-grandson of the person who invented espresso machines, and whose company has been building machines ever since then, communicated to us that they had initially worked with a low pressure pump to emulate the 3 bar line pressure; but preferred the taste derived from filling the group with a higher pressure pump
Wow! For the record, I strongly disagree with the suggestion that Mr. Gunson is inferior in any way to Mr. Bezzera because of his lineage.

Jack Morrow

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tekomino

#76: Post by tekomino »

+1000 Jack, being born into an engenieer family does not make you good engenieer, in fact children of famous inventors almost never get even close to eclipsing their forefathers... Sperm lottery is what it is. A lottery. What you do when you get here is what counts...
Refuse to wing it! http://10000shots.com

zforest

#77: Post by zforest »

Wow! For the record, I strongly disagree with the suggestion that Mr. Gunson is inferior in any way to Mr. Bezzera because of his lineage.
I think Jim was perhaps suggesting that Mr. Reiss could show a little respect. Those that came before him (that Mr. Reiss so brutally tears down in his blog) have done so much more than he to improve this beverage we all love. It was one point in Jim's post among very many.

I have been following this Londinium project with baited breath. But the tone and content of their blog is a major turn-off. It would be nice to simply talk up your project rather than taking cheap and inaccurate shots at the competition.

the_deal_maker

#78: Post by the_deal_maker »

I was really interested in buying one and my decision was (more or less) final - however, after digesting the content of the blog and this ongoing discussion here, my interest in this project is gone. I think it is not a smart move to claim that a product that haven't been launched yet is superior to its main competitors. That tells you sth. - I am (personally) done with this project and going to buy one of the HG One grinder instead.

Cheers,
-Malte

mazi_t

#79: Post by mazi_t »

I have one question.
Is bosco group head worth 600 GBP?
Or what will be in this additional cost?

http://londiniumespresso.com/blogs/lond ... irst-image
http://www.fracino4u.co.uk/cherub--stainless-steel-p190

kitt

#80: Post by kitt » replying to mazi_t »

I'm pretty sure Reiss hasn't just removed the E61 head and bolted on a lever group :lol: Whilst it may share some components from the Fracino machines, there has been alot of redesign to accommodate the lever group, incl thermal engineering and strengthening.And, yes - lever groups are very expensive.They are not produced in anywhere near the volume which has enabled the E61 group to become so cheap