New domestic lever espresso machine with commercial group - Page 6

August 14th, 2012, 1:17 am

the difference between a PV and the Londinium is that you need to heat up a lot more brass to make your shot. And if you keep it running you need to add a lot more power to keep that huge brass group up to temp. So it is going to require more power regardless of the wattage and heat up times.

But I agree with a lot of what you say- and when I said the market would not be big I didn't mean 'ultra niche' or anything- just nowhere near as large as for say- a Silvia or E61 home machine. In a global market even a small niche player can find a large enough market to make a go of it.

August 14th, 2012, 2:41 am

I have no idea how big the market for the Londinium will be, but as the price is intended to be the same ball park as E61 consumer machines I think a lot of consumers out to spend that sort of money will consider it as alternative to an E61 (and there are many, many prosumer E61 machines) - in fact, I was in the market for an E61 (like an Expobar or a Rocket) when a reconditioned Cremina '67 appeared and I bought it instead (a new Cremina was out of the question).

Firstly, I think there is a growing awareness of lever machines among coffee enthusiasts and the fact they make great coffee and, secondly, a professional lever group looks very impressive - it stands out in the market place and, when people are spending that sort of money they don't just want something makes a great cup of coffee they want something that looks great in their kitchen.

But up to now there hasn't been a home machine with a full professional lever group, fast warm up time, temperature stability and reasonable dimensions and price. Put it beside the Rockets/QuickMills/Izzos/Isomacs/etc and quite a few will be drawn to it. How many will buy it? Your guess is as good as mine.

#53: Post by **michaelbenis** » August 14th, 2012, 4:10 am

I agree with Roland's analysis there.

I also think we shouldn't underestimate the more detailed flavour profile that you may get from a commercial group due to the comparatively broader, shallower basket.

Malte, my understanding is that Kees uses this unit and adapts it somewhat for the Idro...

Cheers

Mike

#54: Post by **JohnB.** » August 14th, 2012, 8:26 am

RoloD wrote:But up to now there hasn't been a home machine with a full professional lever group, fast warm up time, temperature stability and reasonable dimensions and price.

Sounds like your describing the Bezzera Strega??

August 14th, 2012, 8:38 am

According to Reiss' blog, the nearest existing machine to the Londinium is the Quickmill Achille which has a much higher quality group than the Strega and is substantially more expensive. I have no experience of either of those machines myself so I can't comment.

#56: Post by **Stefan_E** » August 14th, 2012, 9:09 am

According to Reiss' blog, the nearest existing machine to the Londinium is the Quickmill Achille which has a much higher quality group than the Strega and is substantially more expensive.

I'm a Strega owner, but always looking for an excuse to upgrade

- What are the key differences between the Strega group and the Achille/Londinium group? And how does this impact the espresso?

#57: Post by **donn** » August 14th, 2012, 10:52 am

michaelbenis wrote:I also think we shouldn't underestimate the more detailed flavour profile that you may get from a commercial group due to the comparatively broader, shallower basket.

I guess it's possible that I do indeed underestimate it. I like the results better from the narrower, deeper Zerowatt basket, than our commercial lever groups. I'm not saying the former is a more detailed flavor profile (don't really know!), but ... I think if I found that sort of thing really compelling, I'd have gone to an electric pump a long time ago.

#58: Post by **another_jim** » August 14th, 2012, 6:17 pm

I'd be curious to know how much difference there is between the currently available commercial lever groups -- Astoria, Bosco, Pavoni, Gaggia Espagnol, and Rancilio (? still in production). The Astoria and Bosco groups are used on lots of machines, and in the espresso world, that usually means solid performance (think of the E61 groups and the 68mm conical burr). The rest are just used by the makers themselves.

#59: Post by **farmroast** » August 14th, 2012, 8:50 pm

I'm just amazed at all this new lever machine action. LMWDP, Gwilym Davies

#60: Post by **peacecup** » August 15th, 2012, 5:40 am

I also think we shouldn't underestimate the more detailed flavour profile that you may get from a commercial group due to the comparatively broader, shallower basket.

My experience with 58-mm group levers is confined to the MiniGaggia. With my limited tasting skills I did not find any improvement over the narrower, deeper baskets, although I liked the Mini a lot in general. One drawback of the 58 mm basket is that for me it was more difficult to prepare the puck properly. The resulting variation in espresso quality made it overall less attractive to me than the 45-mm baskets, which are essentially fool-proof.

Again, this is not intended to deride in any way the innovative efforts of Reiss et all to produce a new and better home lever machine.