Manual lever users: Do you find deciding grind level more challenging than with other espresso machine types?

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
boren
Posts: 1114
Joined: 14 years ago

#1: Post by boren »

I find that with pump-based machines or spring-return lever ones it's quite easy to decide if I need to adjust grind level. I'm being simplistic, but when aiming for a specific ratio (e.g. 1:2) it's mostly only a matter of observing total extraction time. 20 seconds is normally too short. 40 seconds is normally too long. And there's a pretty well defined range in between (close to the middle) in which extraction is pretty much what I want it to be.

With manual machines (I'm currently using a Flair 58 and a Picopresso) "optimal" grind level is less obvious. With the Flair 58 there's a pressure gauge that gives some information, but I'm not as consistent in maintaining pressure as a pump, so I don't get the same clear sign that I should adjust the grind. With the Picopresso there's no pressure gauge, so I feel even more left in the dark.

Notwithstanding the above, I'm usually getting excellent shots with both machines. What I'm aiming for is to be more deliberate and in control in how I get there. To have an easier time deciding that when a shot is not great, it has to do with the grind level and not the manual extraction technique.

Any best practices for adjust grind level with such machines?

User avatar
Brewzologist
Supporter ♡
Posts: 1165
Joined: 7 years ago

#2: Post by Brewzologist »

I'm finding grind size does correlate with pretty well with pressure readings on the Flair 58, and it corresponds similarly to what I saw on the DE1; given the same coffee and desired shot profile, I can adjust grind size by X to affect max pressure by Y bar. Mind you I'm still new to the F58 but my early attempts to emulate DE1 profiles using the SEP app to capture flow/weight has been positive so far.

boren (original poster)
Posts: 1114
Joined: 14 years ago

#3: Post by boren (original poster) »

Have you tried using the Flair 58 in its stock configuration (without additional sensors/scales/apps)? This is how I'm using it...

Edit: Adding a Smart Espresso Profiler with gauge and t-splitter (to also use the analog gauge) + Acaia scale would cost another $800 on top of the $575 I paid for the machine. If that's required for easy dialing in of the grind size, it's a steep price to pay. I think I'll try to find a way to do it without the extra gear.

User avatar
Brewzologist
Supporter ♡
Posts: 1165
Joined: 7 years ago

#4: Post by Brewzologist »

I have a Lunar scale I use with the SEP app and don't have the pressure transducer; so no net new outlay of cash for me here.

But during a shot I only look at the F58 pressure gauge, a timer, and stop the pull when the Lunar shows the target weight; the SEP app is just to record the event (flow/weight) for later review. So you can say I am using the F58 in a 'stock' config. I had a lot of prior experience with the Flair Pro2 tho.

EDIT: Wayyy more detail: With my DE1 I regularly pulled the following turbo shot and would adjust grind size +- 1 for the same coffee most of the time to hit this desired target: https://visualizer.coffee/shots/cf5a25e ... c7e113375f With my F58 I am manually emulating this profile (5 sec ramp to 5bar, 2 sec decline to 2 bar, then ramp to 4 bar and hold with slight decline till target weight reached). While the actual grind sizes are different between the F58 and DE1, I am finding the delta in grind size needed to adjust pressures/times (and flow rates too via SEP app + Lunar) is similar between both machines. (e.g. if I only hit a max ramp of 4 bar at the start and want 5 bar, then I need to grind 0.5-1 mark finer to fix)

TL;DR; So in my overly analytical way I am saying I can use the pressures on the F58 scale to determine if I need to grind coarser/finer. And I don't *think* you need any additional tech to do this.

boren (original poster)
Posts: 1114
Joined: 14 years ago

#5: Post by boren (original poster) »

I am using a scale with a timer (Timemore Black Mirror Nano), but it only provides real time reading on its own display. No connectivity features. The Acaia scales look great, but I'm not sure I can justify their cost.

Can you share what pressure profile you're using with the Flair 58? Edit: I just noticed you added this info. Thanks!

Idfixe
Posts: 248
Joined: 8 years ago

#6: Post by Idfixe »

I find it easier with manual lever machines as one "feels" the extraction and can adapt through the shot.... With pump of spring lever... you are done, no way to adapt

Brewtonian
Posts: 17
Joined: 2 years ago

#7: Post by Brewtonian »

I find my manual pulls are very consistent as long as (1) distribution and tamping was performed well and (2) there is a low-pressure preinfusion and slow ramp-up in pressure to 8bar. If you go straight 0-100 with your pressure, then instead of penetrating the puck, it will hammer the puck with the force of the gods with a 500-lb tamp, and then choke.

Ken5
Posts: 977
Joined: 4 years ago

#8: Post by Ken5 replying to Brewtonian »

I have a robot and I find the above very true! Took a long time to realize that speed to which you press to desired preinfusion pressure effects the flow a lot! So now I try to keep it the same, though there are times where one can change speed to change the desired output. For instance if I know I ground too coarse I will press a little quicker till the 2 bar PI that I am going for now, etc...

I have only limited experience with other machines and I would think that it would take me a while to get used to it. With the lever one can adjust to fit the grind, so I think it might be more forgiving.

User avatar
guijan12
Posts: 586
Joined: 6 years ago

#9: Post by guijan12 »

I decide changing grind level only based on taste, never on time or extraction.
If it's sour, I grind finer, until I enjoy it again.
Regards,

Guido

espressotime
Posts: 1751
Joined: 14 years ago

#10: Post by espressotime »

No. Very straight forward.

Post Reply