Londinium R for North America - Page 2

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
3cordcreations

Postby 3cordcreations » Aug 14, 2019, 9:20 am

Bluenoser wrote:The R version looks more bulletproof. But will read more about it.


Did you see this article by Reiss?
Granted this is coming from the owner...
https://londiniumespresso.com/news/why-choose-a-londinium
A three cord strand is not easily broken...

LObin

Postby LObin » Aug 14, 2019, 10:08 am

If you search through the forum, you'll find a few temperature studies on the Londinium group and the L1 thermosiphon loop. Except for the very few who suffered some thermosiphon stalls, the group and HX (it applies for the LR as well although specific temp studies are probably out there as well) recovers quite fast after a shot.
There's even someone who pulled 10 shots in 10 minutes if I recall and the results were very surprising. Positively. Found it. It was 13 shots in 18 minutes.
Londinium I: 13 shots fast as I can

I have a 220v and I live in Canada. I bought used and the price was good enough that it was worth putting a 220v outlet in my kitchen.
On my unit, the pstat cycle is long and the element turns on for like 5 seconds. Warmup time is not much faster though. Yes a 2400w element will bring the system to pressure much quicker but it's the group that requires around 45-60 min to get temp stable. I'm guessing steaming power is higher with a 2400w heating element though.

I'd get a 120v to avoid further complications: (moving, selling the machine, smart switch, etc.)

Madman13

Postby Madman13 » Aug 14, 2019, 10:19 am

elbertfunkleberg wrote:That's a different question. With multiple back-to-back shots the group on a Londinium (and similar machines) can overheat. I believe the latest version is less prone to this because of how the group is connected with the boiler.

Other owners will know more about this than I do because I pull just 1 shot every day. :)


Not true for the Londinium which is a thermosyphon design.. Only for some dipper levers. My scace tests show the group to be extremely temp stable with 2 or 3 min between shots (did not test less time than that)

3cordcreations

Postby 3cordcreations » replying to Madman13 » Aug 14, 2019, 10:41 am

Exactly, dippers and esp ones with smaller groups like the Cremina and LaPavoni.
The big brass group of these large spring levers dissipate heat well and most are not a direct boiler to group connection.
A three cord strand is not easily broken...

truemagellen

Postby truemagellen » replying to 3cordcreations » Aug 14, 2019, 12:40 pm

If you want back to back shots you would actually want a very large Commercial Dipper where you could almost never overheat the group unless flushing in between shots for an extended time. You will pay for it though.

Izzo Alex Leva, Izzo Pompei are ideal. The dipper tube/flange on those machines are so large they actually acts as a second boiler bringing down the temp a bit as it enters the group. Profitec would require a more residential shot sequence but I bet you would be hard pressed to over stimulate it :)

Astoria Gloria AL1 is also large commercial dipper and can even run on Propane or Natural gas if you order it with the option or retrofit the kit. Personally I think the body is a bit rotund without the lines to make its size a true beauty.

Unfortunately for this buyer it complicates the 120 debate further as the Izzo and the Astoria are 120v 20Amp machines and will likely requite an outlet change maybe not an entirely new outlet run and electrician visit (although I've diyed that before too) :)

A 220v machine is ideal for power and recovery of a smaller boiler on a lever if you do a lot of milk drinks (ie. Londinium, Achille, etc) but this wont be a huge issue on the Izzo or Astoria as the boiler is so large (5l versus 2.3 or so on Londinium) you won't compromise it. If you drop the temp to match certain beans perhaps you wont want to run it for steaming in a commercial environment but it will be fine for residential unless you are steam cleaning the carpets at your house with a long attached hose :mrgreen: