Londinium Compact. - Page 13

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caldwa
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#121: Post by caldwa »

Feca wrote:We're still talking about a spring lever though... right? So is this hypothetical comparison to the spring Cremina (Cremina SL)?
That's correct. The 58mm spring group for the Vectis is a new design, smaller than the other 58mm Londinium groups. According to Reiss it will exert a higher pressure than the ~6bar of the Cremina SL, so perhaps close-ish to the LR24 group? It's designed to pull a few shots back-to-back, so similar to the Cremina in that aspect as well.

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caldwa
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#122: Post by caldwa »

bgn wrote:It will be a dipper? That surprises me as I've only ever heard Londinium bash dippers. It's more comparable to other new machines coming to market than I thought, but a lot less forthcoming about details.
Londinium did at one point sell both Olympia Express and Bosco levers, which are both dippers by design, so perhaps he meant that thermosiphons are better than dippers? As I understand it, the purpose of the Vectis is to offer a well-made, 58mm spring lever at a lower price point than the other Londinium machines. Making it a thermosiphon design rather than a dipper would encroach on the Compressa/LR24 in the Londinium range, and would likely make it cost more.

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caeffe

#123: Post by caeffe »

Between this and the upcoming OE (Odyssey Espresso) Argos it will be an interesting year indeed for manual/spring lever home machines.
Two interesting concepts -
Argos - appears to be a PID controlled dipper?; at least based on his Instagram posts and website. Smaller grouphead thermal mass compared to the Vectis but PID controlled? Is it a dipper or a thermosiphon?
Vectis (or Londinium Compact) appears to be a classic dipper. I'm gonna speculate (have not seen what it looks like since I don't have access to the Londinium Forum) that its grouphead will act as a thermal stabilizer.
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malling

#124: Post by malling » replying to caeffe »

It's also a dipper as far as I can tell, I'm far from certain a PID is going to change things drastically. Personally If I where getting one I would probably go with the Londinium version as it comes from an already established and trusted company, since GB pulled itself out of the EU it matters little it's European product but normally would be my pick.

daveyb

#125: Post by daveyb »

At the moment, the choice is a cad render versus a machine available for pre order. If Londinium manage to get this project to prototype stage, then the real choices will have to be made, but until then........

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another_jim
Team HB

#126: Post by another_jim »

As a reality check: Many commercial lever machines have dipper designs, and to say they are less temperature stable than HX designs seems decidedly odd. It is SOP on commercial levers to 1) have multiple groups (three lever groups are about the same capacity as two pump groups), 2) pull shots on the groups one after another so there is a resting interval for each group. This is true regardless of how the water source is configured; it has nothing to do with portafilter sneeze, but gets the group back to operating temperature.

IIRC, a commercial lever group is good for about a shot every one and half to two minutes. Gwylim Davies's YouTube videos are a good source for actual info on using levers commercially.
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homeburrero
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#127: Post by homeburrero »

.... a thermosiphon design rather than a dipper ...
Not an either or situation - be aware that you can have thermosyphon machines that also are dippers (e.g., Faema Lambro). You can even have HX machines (not dippers) that are also not thermosyphons (e.g., VA Athena Leva)
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bas

#128: Post by bas »

yoshi005 wrote:Reiss states that the Vectis (which will be the name for the compact Londinium) will be more thermally stable than a cremina.
That statement has to be proven when the protoype exists.
Yes we have to see. But with the Cremina being not the most thermostable machine I would not be surprised he proves to be right. I think it will depend on the heat sink capacity of the group mostly. So if the Vectis is getting a heavier group with more thermal mass...

We will find out once it is there.

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spressomon

#129: Post by spressomon »

another_jim wrote:As a reality check: Many commercial lever machines have dipper designs, and to say they are less temperature stable than HX designs seems decidedly odd. It is SOP on commercial levers to 1) have multiple groups (three lever groups are about the same capacity as two pump groups), 2) pull shots on the groups one after another so there is a resting interval for each group. This is true regardless of how the water source is configured; it has nothing to do with portafilter sneeze, but gets the group back to operating temperature.

IIRC, a commercial lever group is good for about a shot every one and half to two minutes. Gwylim Davies's YouTube videos are a good source for actual info on using levers commercially.
This!
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Diogenes

#130: Post by Diogenes »

Feca wrote:+1. Even with my impatience I'd rather wait than getting a rushed design.
According to Reiss, the delay is due to fabrication (group casting at a subcontractor foundry). We'll never know whether the design was rushed or not but based on their other products, it's a good bet due diligence was taken during the design process.
caeffe wrote:Between this and the upcoming OE (Odyssey Espresso) Argos it will be an interesting year indeed for manual/spring lever home machines.
Two interesting concepts -
Argos - appears to be a PID controlled dipper?; at least based on his Instagram posts and website. Smaller grouphead thermal mass compared to the Vectis but PID controlled? Is it a dipper or a thermosiphon?
Vectis (or Londinium Compact) appears to be a classic dipper. I'm gonna speculate (have not seen what it looks like since I don't have access to the Londinium Forum) that its grouphead will act as a thermal stabilizer.
So far I am really impressed with the Engineering in the Argos. Not sure if any other machine does this but PID temp control is to the group taking into account the thermal mass of the group... Brilliant. I have also exchanged messages with Ross wrt to the potential of adding a linear actuator to turn the Argos into a profiling machine and while it's something that possible provided he can get an actuator at the right price point. While it would no longer be a lever, this would be awesome.