Londinium 1 (original) vs. Londinium R

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
User avatar
MB

Postby MB » Aug 09, 2018, 8:58 pm

Answering Caesar's OT question (below) from this thread: My Take on the Decent DE1+
caeffe wrote:Matt-
A bit OT since my question is re: Londinium
What differences are there between the L1 and LR? I'm seriously considering either one depending on cost/availability. Obviously I can't buy a new L1 anymore (I'm guessing have the original L1 not the L1-P) and if I do buy new it'll be an LR, or possibly the long awaited LC. I'll probably post a new topic re prosumer Levers but thought I'd ask on this thread for your thoughts
Caesar

They are the same size and appearance, but the main difference is the L1 original (not L1-P, now called L1) fills the piston chamber and basket with water from the boiler using the boiler pressure (mine is set to 1.3 bar). The LR fills the piston chamber and basket from the reservoir using a rotary pump (with a pressure setting that can be adjusted), and is heated by passing in a tube through the boiler. The pump pressure can be set higher than the boiler pressure (the default setting results in about 3 bar at the basket). The setting also makes a difference in the extraction temperature, with higher pressure pre-infusion resulting in higher temperature at the puck. This pump also fills the boiler separately for steam and hot water. The pump pressure setting is done by popping off the top and turning a screw, and is not meant to be changed often.

The ability of the LR to pre-infuse at a higher pressure allows a full saturation of finely ground light roasted beans. With the L1, it doesn't work as well for light roasts under just boiler pressure. Now, I should note, that I have been very happy with the results on the L1 with medium and darker roasts, as I get delicious flavors that taste like the ground beans smell. I stretched to get the LR instead of another L1 to allow for experimentation with the lighter roasts and for the reduced pump noise. The L1 has a vibe pump, that is on longer and is louder. I do have the plumb in kit for the L1, which with the right filtration or flowjet setup for large bottles of water, would make it near silent. I haven't used it yet due to the ease of purchasing Crystal Geyser water from Weed, CA and filling the reservoir.
LMWDP #472

walt_in_hawaii

Postby walt_in_hawaii » Aug 09, 2018, 9:30 pm

There was also the issue of thermosiphon heat stall.... in the early L1 its more of an issue, although it is easy to correct by simply doing a short cleaning flush after a pull.

User avatar
MB

Postby MB » Aug 09, 2018, 10:13 pm

Thanks Walt. Since I always do a quick cleaning flush, I forgot that one.
LMWDP #472

bettysnephew

Postby bettysnephew » Aug 09, 2018, 10:21 pm

Recently on my Bosco I have been preinfusing for 30 seconds at boiler pressure (1.3 bar) and then raising the lever to pressurize for a very short period of time until I see the face of the portafilter basket covering with espresso. At that point I pull the lever back down for about 10 seconds to let the puck fully saturate. Then I raise the lever to do the actual brew. This has been working very well for my taste. Very balanced flavor.
Suffering from EAS (Espresso Acquisition Syndrome)
LMWDP #586

walt_in_hawaii

Postby walt_in_hawaii » Aug 10, 2018, 2:47 am

David, does that mean you get a refill of water for the shot? Sort of a top off?
Sounds interesting... might have to try that! something like a long fellini move...

walt_in_hawaii

Postby walt_in_hawaii » Aug 10, 2018, 2:55 am

MB wrote:Thanks Walt. Since I always do a quick cleaning flush, I forgot that one.

I actually use this to my advantage... I find its easier to heat the group up than cool it down, so its easier to approach your temp from the bottom. I intentionally stall it after a pull and let it cool, but watch the thermocouple before every pull and just do little squirts of water to bring it up to about 170F just prior to locking in and pulling the shot. I also have wrapped the group in foam so its more temperature stable. Ugly, but stable :)

bettysnephew

Postby bettysnephew » Aug 10, 2018, 7:30 am

walt_in_hawaii wrote:David, does that mean you get a refill of water for the shot? Sort of a top off?
Sounds interesting... might have to try that! something like a long fellini move...


It may add a bit of water but probably only replace the amount that has been put into the puck by preinfusion at 1.3 bar. Not much really. Fwiw if I go full stroke on the group I yield about 44 gr. of espresso but I generally pull the cup at 30 - 36 gr depending on variety of coffee. I just use this procedure to fully wet the puck before I start extracting.
Suffering from EAS (Espresso Acquisition Syndrome)
LMWDP #586

User avatar
JohnB.

Postby JohnB. » replying to bettysnephew » Aug 10, 2018, 9:00 am

Full stroke without the double dip yields 37-38g max on my Bosco so you are getting more water in so the pour will probably blond sooner in the stroke then it would with a normal fill. What kind of difference do you notice in taste?
LMWDP 267

bettysnephew

Postby bettysnephew » Aug 10, 2018, 10:15 am

On single stroke with no fancy maneuvering mine has always put out about 40 gr. or just a bit more. 5 gr. is not very much. There may be a few changes that Sr. Bosco has made between the time yours was built and mine. What ever the case, the espresso is great!
Suffering from EAS (Espresso Acquisition Syndrome)
LMWDP #586

chappcc

Postby chappcc » Aug 10, 2018, 8:02 pm

walt_in_hawaii wrote:... have wrapped the group in foam so its more temperature stable. Ugly, but stable :)


Depending on how well you have insulated the group, the thermosyphon could stall. The flow rate through the thermosyphon should be directly related to the rate of heat loss through the group. The temperature stability of the group is derived from its mass, so insulation shouldn't really affect temperature stability.