Light/medium roasts with a Direct Lever Machine

#1: Post by **Skaks** » February 9th, 2023, 12:27 pm

Hi Everyone,
I am interested in getting a Direct Lever Machine to have a more hands on experience pulling a shot but I am wondering just how is easy is it to repeat a previous pull? Right now I am using a ECM Classika PID and usually I can stop within +- 0.5 g of my desired weight. Any tips on getting consistency with a pull? Also what expectations should I have on the learning curve with a direct lever machine?
Thank you!

February 9th, 2023, 12:31 pm

Hi Everyone,
I am looking at getting a Direct Lever Machine. I enjoy a large range of roasts, everything from a light roast to a dark roast. How is easy is it to pull a light or medium roast on a direct lever machine? Any tips?
Thank you!

#3: Post by **Marcelnl** » February 9th, 2023, 12:46 pm

I'm using a spring lever, and it's dead easy to pull my fairly light roasts (meaning; drop temp at around 207'C)...it all starts with what your definition of a light roast is?
Adjust the grind and temp as with any other espresso machine, and manipulate the extraction duration to your liking.

#4: Post by **yoshi005** » February 9th, 2023, 1:35 pm

You get consistent results if you follow consistent routines.

When you use the same ammount of water with the same ammount of beans (within a lot), prepare your puck the same way and pull your shots consistently after the same time the machine has had to heat up, then you will reach nearly the same results every time.

I use my Caravel with light roasts every time and get great espresso consistenly. only shot volume is limited.

#5: Post by **mrgnomer** » February 9th, 2023, 3:40 pm

I've got a commercial spring and two direct lever machines. All of them pull light roasts really well. Temperature control is more of an issue with my boiler fill direct levers. Long idling makes for pretty hot groupheads that aren't as easy to cool down as my HX spring lever. With light roasts, hot kind of works since more extraction works better with light roasts but I tend to lose the fruitiness I get with the cooler grouphead and cooler extraction temperature of a temp surf flushed spring.

I think what is more important is the grind. You need a good grinder that can handle the harder and denser light roasts. With a good grinder I'd say any machine that's capable will give you a good extraction.

#6: Post by **Word_salad** » February 9th, 2023, 9:49 pm

With the Strietman CT2 I get the most consistent and best light roast shots I ever have by a good margin. Temp is incredibly consistent and with consistent prep the pull will be the same every time. That being said it is an almost $3k machine. I have experience with a La Pavoni and while I did manage get some pretty incredibly shots the consistency wasn't the same. There were occasional spongy shots or temp swings etc. I think you can get great, consistent shots with any lever machine if you take the time to learn its quirks, but there will be more variables than an e61

February 12th, 2023, 11:28 pm

I always thought that a lever machine was much more for dark roast so it great to hear that you get some of your best light roast shots from a direct lever machine! I presume that the biggest variable compared to an E61 machine is the strength I pull with? A spring machine would be more consistent with this but would lose a bit of the ability to adjust the pull on the fly?

February 12th, 2023, 11:33 pm

mrgnomer wrote:I've got a commercial spring and two direct lever machines. All of them pull light roasts really well. Temperature control is more of an issue with my boiler fill direct levers. Long idling makes for pretty hot groupheads that aren't as easy to cool down as my HX spring lever. With light roasts, hot kind of works since more extraction works better with light roasts but I tend to lose the fruitiness I get with the cooler grouphead and cooler extraction temperature of a temp surf flushed spring.

More fruitiness with a cooler grouphead temperature? Approx how much cooler? With the Temperature control issues with your direct lever how much of a temperature fluctuation is there?

#9: Post by **mrgnomer** » February 13th, 2023, 7:12 am

I only know that with my Strega the grouphead temp is cooler and more stable than my Cremina after after bleeding off false pressure and idling over an hour. I temp surf with the Strega and pressure control on both. With the Strega there's much more clarity with lighter roasts. The Cremina is more muted and on the bitter side when the grouphead is hot. Based on the thermal strips I've got on the group the Strega is running 10C cooler on idle and more on pull if I do a long flush short rebound.

#10: Post by **LObin** » February 13th, 2023, 3:03 pm

Skaks wrote:I always thought that a lever machine was much more for dark roast so it great to hear that you get some of your best light roast shots from a direct lever machine! I presume that the biggest variable compared to an E61 machine is the strength I pull with? A spring machine would be more consistent with this but would lose a bit of the ability to adjust the pull on the fly?

I've had a Londinium L1, a commercial Bezzera lever (HX) and now solely (pimped) La Pavoni's and a Flair58.
Even though I miss the smooth workflow of a spring lever, I've had better success with light roasts since I moved to direct levers. Even more so with the Flair58.
With a direct lever you got full control of the preinfusion, extraction and post infusion pressure. You can experiment with flow control although not to the extent of other FC machines. Depending on the chamber/boiler capacity, you can also pull longer ratios vs most spring levers. To a certain extent, it's possible to do these on a spring lever but it's not as intuitive nor as consistent as it is on a manual lever with a pressure gauge.

I often experiment with 6 to 9 bar peek pressure and as you said, can make pressure/flow adjustments to save a shot that offers too much or not enough resistance.

From my own experience, the Flair58 is probably the best option for light roasts right now because of it's heated chamber. It provides excellent intra-shot temperature stability (a slight temp increase actually) vs most levers that have a declining curve temp. Not that this is bad but I find that lighter roasts benefit from that stability, more so than medium or dark roasts. That was also true when I compared the Flair58 with my Cafelat Robot.

Another option that offers a similar temp profile is Strietman levers. I'm hoping other open boiler levers with temperature control will hit the market over the next few years... Maybe some sort of an hybrid between the Meticulous and the Flair58