Lever multiple pull techniques - Page 7

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timo888

#61: Post by timo888 »

cannonfodder wrote:I am only using the weight of the tamper with a slight push with my index finger . You are using a different machine than I so dosing will behave differently between the two, but what dose are you using? I was filling the basket to the top and simply leveling off the mound. That should be around 13.5 (give or take a few tenths) grams.

I may try dismissing the tamp all together and just thump the portafilter onto my tamping stand 3 times to settle the grounds and see what happens. The surface of the puck will be compacted by the shower screen when doing that.
I was using a smaller dose with the Lusso double basket, 10-11g. I pulled a single this morning with the Cremina using the steeply conical basket, filling only the lower portion, and no tamp but just a few taps of the basket on the countertop. Worked very well. I dose the baskets outside the PF.

Regards
Timo

P.S. With a fluffy grind, dosing level with the top of the basket works well too. If your tamper is heavy, just press down only 1/4 inch. The tampers Richard made for me, modelled on the tamper that shipped with Peppina, and very close to it in size, are much lighter than the larger weighted ironwood tampers Les makes. If I am using Les's tamper, I don't press down at all and even have to hold it back a little.

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cannonfodder
Team HB

#62: Post by cannonfodder »

I have been using the super fine grind and next to no tamp on both the Elektra and Gaggia Factory this week. I have tightened the grind down to the point my burrs are touching while experimenting. I am getting better results thanks to timo's tips. I am still getting better results from my Factory (non spring assisted) than I do from the Elektra.

I do notice a marked difference between the initial pull and the second pull. There is less resistance on the second stroke even with the super fine grind. The fine grind does reduce the difference between the two but it is still there. The difference between the shots on the Elektra and Gaggia may be due to my ability to vary the lever pressure and keep a consistent flow rate versus the Elektra's spring lever. It could also simply be the difference between the design of the two machines.

I find myself using the fine grind and light tamp with one and a half lever pulls when making a milk drink. The one and a half ounce shot it produces are still pretty good but for a straight espresso I still find myself preferring a longer preinfuse with a single lever pull. Maybe with time and practice my results will continue to improve.
Dave Stephens

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bill
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#63: Post by bill »

cannonfodder wrote:Normally you have to let the machine sit for a moment or two so it can depressurize. To get around this, I lift, or lower, the lever while removing the portafilter. This kind of debunks the idea that air is not sucked up through the puck with a second lever lift. By lifting, or lowering, the lever after a shot I can suck air back into the group which allows me to remove the portafilter right after a shot with no portafilter sneeze.
I've been using this technique since I read cannonfodder's post. It works great, but tonight I had an unusal experience. Lowered the lever a tad, removed the filter holder, and it was 'empty'. Looked up at the bottom of the group and the puck was stuck to the dispersion screen. Now I'm wondering what else besides air is being sucked back into the group. Anyone have any thoughts?
Bill
LMWDP #43

I wasn't born in Texas, but got here as fast as I could!

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cannonfodder
Team HB

#64: Post by cannonfodder »

If you raise it too much, you will suck the sludge out of the basket and into the group. I use a small raise on the lever. Around a quarter of the lever stroke is all I use. At worst, I get a small hiss when I pull the portafilter off. I have a habit of raising the lever and purging out some water to wash off the shower screen on both my levers and pump machines.
Dave Stephens

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bill
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#65: Post by bill »

cannonfodder wrote:I use a small raise on the lever. Around a quarter of the lever stroke is all I use. At worst, I get a small hiss when I pull the portafilter off.
I don't lower the lever nearly that much but they're obviously very different machines. There must be a considerable amount of suction generated as the entire puck was stuck to the screen. I'll just have to be very careful.
cannonfodder wrote:I have a habit of raising the lever and purging out some water to wash off the shower screen on both my levers and pump machines.
I always do the same so maybe I needn't be concerned.
Bill
LMWDP #43

I wasn't born in Texas, but got here as fast as I could!

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peacecup

#66: Post by peacecup »

Bill,

I'd been using this lever-lift PF removal myself since I'd read the post. It was so much fun to be able the remove the PF instantly, but after reading your post I stopped! Even if the chance is very small, the last thing I want to do is draw ANY grinds into my piston cylinder. My Ponte Vecchio has worked flawlessly for two years, and I do not want to risk any unnecessary maintenance for the convenience of a few seconds before removing the PF.

PS: just finished my umpteenth reading of His Last Bow, and immediately went round to the first page of the Canon, where I'm currently rattling away in a hansom towards the Brixton Road for the very first time (again!)....

PC
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

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HB (original poster)
Admin

#67: Post by HB (original poster) »

peacecup wrote:Even if the chance is very small, the last thing I want to do is draw ANY grinds into my piston cylinder. My Ponte Vecchio has worked flawlessly for two years, and I do not want to risk any unnecessary maintenance for the convenience of a few seconds before removing the PF.
I'm confused. How is the effect of Dave's "early portafilter release" technique any different than multiple lever pulls, a practice you've repeatedly advocated?
Dan Kehn

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peacecup

#68: Post by peacecup replying to HB »

I guess I was thinking of using the technique after the machine had been turned off. You're correct, in that if the machine is still on, if one pulls the lever down, removes the PF, then allows water to be expelled under pressure to clean the group it should be the same.

I've had the dispersion screen off my PV several times, and have never noticed any grinds in the chamber, so taking multiple pulls does not appear to create enough suction to pull grinds into the chamber.

EDIT: FOR MOST OF THE PAST TWO YEARS I HAVE BEEN TAMPING RELATIVELY HARD, AND I STILL TAMP FIRMLY. VERY FINELY-GROUND, LIGHTLY-TAMPED COFFEE MAY BE MORE EASILY SUCKED INTO THE PISTON CHAMBER DURING MULTIPLE PULLS.

PC
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

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HB (original poster)
Admin

#69: Post by HB (original poster) »

peacecup wrote:EDIT: FOR MOST OF THE PAST TWO YEARS...
Er, why are you "yelling"?
Dan Kehn

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peacecup

#70: Post by peacecup »

I'm concerned that very finely-ground, lightly-tamped coffee might get into the group during multiple pulls. I wanted to be sure that no one damaged their machine assuming that since I have not seen grounds in the group during multiple pulls, they would have the same results. Wanted to be sure they saw it.

PC
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."