Today I also did exclusively "nearly no tamp" with two pulls using 12 grams of coffee, producing a brew ratio ranging from 55-70% (I pulled the cup away when blonding starts). The blend was the second half of PT's Coffee La Bella Vita and as I reported before, all good espressos having light/medium chocolates and some fruit. I believe a bottomless portafilter would reveal churn on the upstroke, but for now I'll file it under 'To Be Confirmed'.

More importantly, Dave's "no portafilter sneeze" trick works wonders. I'll never suffer another coffee splatter again; how could I have not thought of that? D'oh!

cannonfodder wrote:I do use a finer grind and light tamp but have to admit it is not that light. I will try it tomorrow on the Gaggia before I head off to church and see what happens.

Dave, you will need to do it with your non-throwing arm.

Regards
Timo

HB wrote:Yes, I think this point has already been made several times, but thanks for the bold faced reminder for those who may have missed it.

It is a very important point for those new to the lever world, who might think that a spring lever and a manual lever have much in common because they bear a visual similarity. Yet manual levers are closer in regard to brew pressure profile to pump machines than they are to spring levers -- David Attenborough devoted a whole documentary to this, I believe, called something like The Private Life of Levers, IIRC.

Regards
Timo

HB wrote: I haven't tried the Lusso's singles, but it's on my to-do list. Have you, and if so, how do they compare to the doubles?

I pull one-pull singles almost exclusively on the Cremina (I am not anti-single-pull by any means, despite my urgings that people try the double-pull with the Lusso, where it works quite well if the conditions are right). But with the Lusso single basket I had best luck using a very fine grind, very fresh coffee (2-4 days post roast), no tamp whatsoever, and about a 6g dose, with the pressure stat set about 1.4. This p-stat setting was too high for my dinner party torture testing duty cycle, but any lower, and the singles tended to be a little cool. Changing roasts/blend could address that (the excellent Howell's Terroir Honduras Mira Valle Farm S.O. roast I pulled at 195°F on the Peppina would be a good choice for Lusso singles) as could pulling a warming flush right before the single. But a warming flush was too much work for me at the time, as I was studying for exams in the School of Loose Shoes.

Regards
Timo

cai42 wrote:Greetings,

If I may quote from the first post on the purpose of this Smackdown.

"Sponsored by 1st-line Equipment, this review will focus on their recent introduction to the US market, the Ponte Vecchio Lusso. This temperature-stable lever espresso machine will be compared and contrasted against better known models..."


Lets try to stay close to the purpose of this project.


Cliff Isackson

As a contributor of personal opinions, but not a reviewer, I think the discussion did not wander far from the mark. What the comparison and contrasts are about, IMO, is an attempt to answer the following questions, for each machine in turn:

-- how to pull a good single (ristretto, normale, lungo)?
-- how to pull a good double (ditto, ditto, ditto)?
-- how to pull several or multiple shots one after the other and manage temperature?
-- how to make steamed milk drinks and manage temperature and work flow in an entertaining scenario?
-- how to maintain the machine?
-- does the machine have any design flaws or workmanship issues?
-- how to repair the machine or get it repaired?
-- how much does it cost to buy and then cost to own?

In the course of answering those questions, similarities and differences of the machines, their capabilities, lack of capabilities, and workarounds to address the lack of capabilities, emerge. What seemed a digression was really an attempt to answer the second question.

Regards
Timo

HB wrote:I believe a bottomless portafilter would reveal churn on the upstroke, but for now I'll file it under 'To Be Confirmed'.

But the point is that the lightest kiss of a tamp followed by an adequate preinfusion yields a puck with magical self-healing properties -- not that churn won't occur. The undesirable channeling effects of churn are alleviated.

Regards
Timo

Kaffee Bitte wrote:Are you doing the fellini before your first pull? I have found if I want to be up to a full two ounces I have to do two fellini's to get there. Doesn't always work, but it will more often than not. Always have to watch the pour closely on these.


I think part of the explanation for this is the way the water enters the group. There almost always seems to be air trapped in the group, so the stated 1.5 ounce water draw is usually more like .75-1 ounce. The fellini and a good preinfusion will usually keep toward the higher end of this.

No Fellini before the pull. I was using only two down pulls on the lever; both pulls are from the lever up to lever down position with no pause or pump during the pull.

My guess would be air in the top of the group as well but I have no real way to prove it other than common sense. Also keep in mind that the puck will absorb quite a bit of water during the preinfuse. When using a Scace device to check extraction temperatures you run the shot for 3 ounces not two. That is to simulate the pucks absorption of one ounce of liquid at the beginning of the pull. this could also be the puck simply absorbing water. I do not have time right now to put much brain power into the reasoning, I have a long list of projects at work.

timo888 wrote:Dave, you will need to do it with your non-throwing arm.

Regards
Timo

I am only using the weight of the tamper with a slight push with my index finger . You are using a different machine than I so dosing will behave differently between the two, but what dose are you using? I was filling the basket to the top and simply leveling off the mound. That should be around 13.5 (give or take a few tenths) grams.

I may try dismissing the tamp all together and just thump the portafilter onto my tamping stand 3 times to settle the grounds and see what happens. The surface of the puck will be compacted by the shower screen when doing that.

As most of you have noticed, I have split the rather lengthy discussion about lever pull techniques off from the main lever machine smackdown thread. We have some good discussion going on but I did not want the hardware side of the review/comparison to get drowned out with lever pull techniques.

There will obviously be some information that is relevant to both sections but I prefer to keep the current line of discussion as part of this thread with a synopsis of sorts posted to the smackdown thread. That way those looking for a hardware review do not have to go through pages of pull technique discussions if they do not want to, and likewise for those looking for technique tips vs hardware discussions.

This morning I made a really great tasting espresso on the Gaggia Factory by:
- Lifting the handle to let water in, about 4 seconds.
- Slowly lowering the lever until coffee started to drip out.
- Slowly raising the lever and letting more water in, about 10 seconds.
- Firmly pulling down to get lots of crema (2 day old Yemen) and two single shots, actually a tad less then two shots.

I've been going for an additional pull all along and after reading the great discussions decided to go with a smaller shot. Yep, worked as advertised. It's like I got the best out of the coffee before asking it to give me more. Hmm, this could turn me into a more than two shots a day drinker!