Hi all,

I'm considering doubling up on my espresso machines with a lever. Currently looking at the Londinium. Although I will be interested on reading fellow Home-Barista's on the pros and cons of this machine vs others, I know there are multiple threads on comparing these machines already; I'd like to keep this thread on workflow with such machine.

Having previously owned a HX machine, I know the flush, wait, pull method is not something working in my household. I'd like to hear about the lever machine on a Londinium that has only one boiler... do you have to flush? Anything else to do than just pull your shot? That would explain why some machines have a double boiler vs a single one.

Thanks all!

I have been watching and reading all that I can find on the Londinium R.... in the past few days I have chatted with Reiss @ Londinium as well.

No need to flush.
Very temperature stable for back to back shots.

Owners will surely chime in with more. My main concern at this point, coming from an E61 HX machine as well, is shot comparison... I am used to the strong and creamy shots from my Rocket. Want to make sure I do not loose that with going to the Londinium R. I have a La Pavoni, and the shots from that machine are lighter in body than the Rocket... If the L-R shots are similar, then another lever for me is not the way to go...

Subscribed to see what others contribute...

wachuko wrote:I have been watching and reading all that I can find on the Londinium R.... in the past few days I have chatted with Reiss @ Londinium as well.

No need to flush.
Very temperature stable for back to back shots.

Owners will surely chime in with more. My main concern at this point, coming from an E61 HX machine as well, is shot comparison... I am used to the strong and creamy shots from my Rocket. Want to make sure I do not loose that with going to the Londinium R. I have a La Pavoni, and the shots from that machine are lighter in body than the Rocket... If the L-R shots are similar, then another lever for me is not the way to go...

Subscribed to see what others contribute...

There are lots of videos of Londinium pulls out there. Commercial lever don't produce thin body/low volume shots like most small levers. I will probably get a few replies stating it's possible to pull thick, big crema shots on small lever groups and even though this is right, it's still not the norm and there's an obvious difference between shots on a commercial lever and a small home lever.

Anyways, the flexibility of the LR allows for a fully soaked coffee puck during the preinfusion phase for high yield (40g+ is easily achievable).

Most commercial lever owners have owned E61 machines in the past. It would be more complicated to find people that went from a commercial lever to an E61. Not impossible but not as frequent imo.

I own a 2013 Londinium 1 and I only get praises when I have friends over for a coffee. The main comments are : 1- The consistency and ease of pulling great shots, time after time.
2- The sweetness and smoothness of the espresso. Less bitterness/ harshness and more defined flavors
3- The "cool factor". Not just the look but the whole process.

Hope this helps!

Cheers!

*And you're right, no cooling/warming flush, no overheating after a long idle and quick recovery/rebound between shots.

John49 wrote:You might consider a Strietman CT2, next to your Slayer. Small foot print, elegant and ready in 8 minutes.

I agree. I prefer spring levers but if you have a Slayer already Strietman would be the best for complimenting it adding a fun experimental element and art piece to the mix.

I have a digital thermometer on my L1 group. This is not a full study obviously (there are some scace studies with more precise numbers that were posted here).

I pulled my shot at 79.8C
The group temp rose to 82C early in the pull and slowly cooled down during the shot.
I did a short flush to clean the group and portafilter afterwards which brought the group temp up to 82.5-83C.
Exactly 1:50 seconds later, the group was back to idling at 80.3C (there's a small variation in idle temperature based on ambient temperature and air circulation/activity in the kitchen.)
If I had pull another shot within 1 minute after the 1st shot, my group would have been around 1C hotter (81ishC) vs the starting temperature of the first pull.

So...I guess what I'm trying to say is that a E61/HX and a lever/HX are two different beasts!

*The L1 is a hot fed system with thermosyphon while the LR is a cold fed heat exchanger.

LObin wrote:There are lots of videos of Londinium pulls out there. Commercial lever don't produce thin body/low volume shots like most small levers. I will probably get a few replies stating it's possible to pull thick, big crema shots on small lever groups and even though this is right, it's still not the norm and there's an obvious difference between shots on a commercial lever and a small home lever.

Anyways, the flexibility of the LR allows for a fully soaked coffee puck during the preinfusion phase for high yield (40g+ is easily achievable).

Most commercial lever owners have owned E61 machines in the past. It would be more complicated to find people that went from a commercial lever to an E61. Not impossible but not as frequent imo.

I own a 2013 Londinium 1 and I only get praises when I have friends over for a coffee. The main comments are : 1- The consistency and ease of pulling great shots, time after time.
2- The sweetness and smoothness of the espresso. Less bitterness/ harshness and more defined flavors
3- The "cool factor". Not just the look but the whole process.

Hope this helps!

Cheers!

*And you're right, no cooling/warming flush, no overheating after a long idle and quick recovery/rebound between shots.

So it is essentially: grind, tamp, pull, repeat. And I can steam milk at the same time than I pull the shot?
That is what intrigues me with a lever, the motion of actually doing it is appealing. Funny enough, I bought a Slayer for it's tuning abilities of pre-brew and flow management, only to understand that what all these fancy machines were trying to do is mimic a lever... with much more complexity...

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Slayer. Just intrigued by a lever and do side by side comparisons...

John49 wrote:You might consider a Strietman CT2, next to your Slayer. Small foot print, elegant and ready in 8 minutes.

Thanks for the proposal. I know the probabilities of owning two machines long term are slim... therefore, would like a lever machine that I would not be willing to change medium term.

Idfixe wrote: So it is essentially: grind, tamp, pull, repeat. And I can steam milk at the same time than I pull the shot?
That is what intrigues me with a lever, the motion of actually doing it is appealing. Funny enough, I bought a Slayer for it's tuning abilities of pre-brew and flow management, only to understand that what all these fancy machines were trying to do is mimic a lever... with much more complexity...

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Slayer. Just intrigued by a lever and do side by side comparisons...

Yes you can steam milk at the same time. The boiler heats up the brewing water through the heat exchanger but it's pretty much like a steam dedicated boiler. Once you raise the lever, you can do whatever pleases you. Steam milk, grind the next dose, tell you kids to stop running in the house or enjoy the sweet sound of the espresso filling the cup, without a pump to ruin that melody (nor kids running in the house!)

How many isolation days are we at now?

LObin wrote:I have a digital thermometer on my L1 group. This is not a full study obviously (there are some scace studies with more precise numbers that were posted here).

I pulled my shot at 79.8C

Where do you have your thermocouple attached to the group? It is hotter and colder at different spots. I have mine attached at about the point where the holes in the sleeve are, from which the brew water enters the group when the lever is lowered. I figure that puts the tc next to where the thermosiphon water is circulating.