Hello all,

This is my first post on HB but looking forward to getting involved, have been reading and following some of the great discussions for many years. So here is my delema.

Soon to take ownership of our cabin in the mountains here in Norway, the plan will be to spend a lot of weekends up there and therefore the obvious first question is what shall the cabin be equipped with for espresso. The problem lies In the POTENTIAL for freezing conditions, though outside will always in winter be below 0 deg C. The cabin will be constantly heated to above this (say 5 degrees c, not warm but not freezing) in the event of a system failure when we are not at the cabin then the temperatures inside will drop below freezing, obviously this could cause issues to a water filled espresso machine.

My thoughts are a lever machine, bringing simpler construction, no pump and easy to empty boiler can be a good alternative, simply adding the routine of emptying the boiler prior to leaving and ensuring all water is out. (Note: this is not the only reason I would like to venture into the lever machine world but a strong driver that started my investigation into these machines).

Pending what approvals I can get for financing within the household my options are looking like:

La Pavoni Europiccola or ultimately Olympia Cremina.

So those of you with experience with these machines what are your thoughts on any potential damage to the machine should it experience freezing conditions after emptying the boilers? Emptying routines (I have seen one user description of emptying the Cremina) and any other concerns or ideas. ( there shall be no mention of antifreeze and carrying the machine up and down is out of the question)


Look forward to the replies.

Cheers
Ryan

An espresso forge? No boiler so no risk of freezing...feasability will probably dpend on the nr of shots per day as it is kind of very manual. The Europiccola, or a caravel, a peppina or..a faemina can also be emptied very easily (last three are vintage levers capable of exceptional shots)
Condensation would be another potential issue to consider, not sure if electronics can handle that for long but then again...if it's high up humidity may be low...

If you are straight espresso drinker( Like me ) , then Caravel probably would be a good choice?

The Decent machine has no boiler , but I'm not sure if the thermoblock can be sufficiently cleared of water to avoid freezing issues.

I'm interested in it for a somewhat similar reason where it might often be left unused for months at a time, though no risk of freezing.

Well, Time will tell us and Thank you for remind us about this machine here.

Thanks for the responses so far.

Fair point on the electrics not liking these conditions but the below freezing should only be an accidental occurrence and not too regular I would hope. Humidity should be keep low most of the time by the mild heating inside.

Looks like we are fairly confident that these types of machines should be ok to stand up to this type of occurrence.

Thanks also for the other recommendations will research these aswell.

The second generation La Pavoni lever groups are designed in such a way that if you were to drain them by inverting them essentially no water would be trapped inside the group, particularly if you moved the handle. (And none can be trapped inside the boiler either.) The other La Pavoni machines have space between the piston walls and the group walls with water inside. You could probably get away with simply dumping them, especially if you shook the machine whilst it was inverted. I suspect that moving the lever whilst inverted would successfully remove any water from the Cremina, it operates with the space above the piston filled with water, that is how the group on these machines is heated.

Second generation La Pavoni machines are wonderful for low ambient temperatures and high altitudes! I am taking mine with me for a trip to a place in Colorado where I will stay for a week. elevation 2200 metres. I have had it there before and it is wonderful at those altitudes because of the reduced boiling point of water.

With the current Creminas that have a pstat, I have some concern that tilting them back when full can dump water into the pstat U tube and pstat. I have had some problems with pstats and think this could be a cause. I siphon it out, then invert to get the last drops out. Not sure if this really works though.