Lever Espresso Machine Flow Profiles

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
guiny
Posts: 48
Joined: 2 years ago

#1: Post by guiny »

I just started using the Smart Espresso Profiler app
https://www.naked-portafilter.com/smart ... -profiler/
and noticed that it comes with various examples from lever machines.

Profitec Pro 800 single spring

Profitec Pro 800 dual spring

La Marzocco Leva X

Olympia Cremina 67


What are the flow profiles that people are seeing with their lever machines? Is constant flow a desirable goal?
★ Helpful

User avatar
CoffeeMac
Posts: 198
Joined: 13 years ago

#2: Post by CoffeeMac »

Here is the flow profile for this morning's shot on my Londinium Compressa (Northbound American Beauty, "2" on Monolith Conical, 4 bar PI, 18g in, 36g out).

I have the app, but not the sensor so I don't have pressure data. For this shot I did retard the lever a bit at the beginning to let the bottom of the basket fully bead up before fully releasing for full pressure. I usually aim for about 1 g/s flow, so may need to tighten the grind a bit next time.

Londinium Compressa
Eventually you will end up with a lever.

LMWDP #706

User avatar
mckolit
Posts: 435
Joined: 16 years ago

#3: Post by mckolit »

guiny wrote:I just started using the Smart Espresso Profiler app
https://www.naked-portafilter.com/smart ... -profiler/
and noticed that it comes with various examples from lever machines.

Profitec Pro 800 single spring
image
Profitec Pro 800 dual spring
image
La Marzocco Leva X
image
Olympia Cremina 67
image

What are the flow profiles that people are seeing with their lever machines? Is constant flow a desirable goal?
Is there a profile in there for a Londinium?

User avatar
drgary
Team HB
Posts: 14281
Joined: 14 years ago

#4: Post by drgary »

I'm confused about the Olympia Express Cremina '67 flow profile. That's not a spring lever, so the profile depends on your pull. The springed version of the Cremina is brand new, not a '67 model.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

User avatar
Chert
Posts: 3520
Joined: 16 years ago

#5: Post by Chert »

Wouldn't the profile depend to a great degree on dose, grind, bean and be variable depending on those factors.

And the LM Leva is adjustable in afew ways isn't it?

I consider my Pavoni lever profile to be 5 sec 1 bar (lever up so boiler pressure) --> 10 sec 3 bar (I hold it there according to Naked gauge, roughly 10 sec or first drops though basket), --> 7 bar about 10 sec, then decline for decreasing flow. The Decent now does that for me, with MUCH higher water debit.
LMWDP #198

guiny (original poster)
Posts: 48
Joined: 2 years ago

#6: Post by guiny (original poster) »

The app is free so you can see the examples yourself. There is another Cremina with a Fellini. Hopefully these are examples of a 'good' pull.

guiny (original poster)
Posts: 48
Joined: 2 years ago

#7: Post by guiny (original poster) »

Chert wrote:
I consider my Pavoni lever profile to be 5 sec 1 bar (lever up so boiler pressure) --> 10 sec 3 bar (I hold it there according to Naked gauge, roughly 10 sec or first drops though basket), --> 7 bar about 10 sec, then decline for decreasing flow. The Decent now does that for me, with MUCH higher water debit.
So you are not trying to emulate your Pavoni with the Decent? Can you show us the flow profile that you getting with the Decent?

Thanks.

User avatar
Chert
Posts: 3520
Joined: 16 years ago

#8: Post by Chert replying to guiny »

Yes. I considered those numbers to make the Decent profile I use.

I can try. Profile sharing is certainly something Decent users do, I just haven't learned that.

I guess I would need a 51 mm basket to really emulate a millenium la pavoni and maybe a different temperature management. :?:
LMWDP #198

User avatar
drgary
Team HB
Posts: 14281
Joined: 14 years ago

#9: Post by drgary »

Despite the fact that "there's an app for that," I don't think the profiles are particularly meaningful. If you have a weak spring, you know it, because it's hard to pull a shot with crema and the machine is easily choked. If you want a dense shot, you updose or pull the cup before it completes for the desired brew ratio. As Flint says above, pressure would vary according to dose and grind. A profile of a manual lever is meaningless unless you can't build enough pressure because it's almost endlessly varied, whether or not you recock the lever. And you'll know you don't have enough pressure because you can't produce any crema no matter what the dose or grind or use of fresh coffee, etc. And yes, the LM Leva profile is very adjustable and the profiles are saved to be reproduced, so there isn't just one profile.
Gary
LMWDP#308

What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

guiny (original poster)
Posts: 48
Joined: 2 years ago

#10: Post by guiny (original poster) »

For me, it's useful because I am trying to reproduce a lever shot with a pump machine with flow control. Here is the profile without flow control.

and the same coffee with flow control.

We felt that the second tased better (less bitter). Without such data, I find that it is very difficult to use the flow control as the effect is far from linear with most of the change in flow occurring close to the fully closed position.