La Pavoni lever history--age of used machines - Page 3

#21: Post by **homeburrero** » May 11th, 2012, 5:38 pm

rpavlis wrote: My guess: 1990. I think that a rather probable date, in fact.

Good call. Going back to Francesco Ceccarelli's pics, it appears that this machine has a switch typically from 1988 and earlier, and a boiler cap typically from 1991 and later. Could be that one of the parts is not original, but also likely that different production runs at Pavoni used different combinations of older/newer parts.

I agree it looks well cared for, no visible fatal flaws. One thing to look out for that you can't see til you pull the lever is a worn/deformed grouphead slot - like this:

This particular one isn't a fatal flaw, works smoothly enough if the bushing is new and lubricated.

#22: Post by HB » May 24th, 2012, 7:20 am

Split follow-on discussion to Second hand La Pavoni from eBay.

#23: Post by **hankbates** » May 24th, 2012, 9:48 am

drgary wrote:I contacted Mr. Ceccarelli and he writes that for the Europiccola the heating element configuration changed from 200W and 800W to a single 1000W element in 1990. He added that the dual element configuration never changed for the Mignon. He then offered this history which combines his knowledge and my editing for English:

- The Europiccola was introduced in 1961 (but was first sold in 1958 and badged "Co-Fer") with a dual heating element, 200W and 600W. The High position powered both elements. The Low position powered only the 200W element.
- In 1974 the heating element was modified to 200W and 800W and the switch now offered three positions. At the highest setting it powered only the 800W element and in the lowest setting only powered the 200W element.
- In 1980 the element was modified with 3 bolts screwed in to a brass ring.
- In 1984 a thermofuse was added in Italy. Outside Italy the thermofuse was added in 1978-79.
- In 1990 the two heating elements became a single 1000W element and a pressurestat was added connected to the boiler with a brass pipe
- In 1996 the element was changed to steel, and the brass ring was replaced by a black ring. The boiler thread became coarse and a resettable (not adjustable but only resettable - the red pin may be up or down) thermostat was added.
- In 2005 the black ring was replaced again by a brass ring.

My daughter had an EP with a date stamp 1995 inside which had a brass four pole heating element and a double switch, and no pressurestat. As I recall she was the first owner and it was bought from EGH as a demo unit.
This might seem to contradict what Francesco says, but you never know what changes had been made by others (even perhaps the importer, in this case) before you acquired an item such as this. So many different items interchanged over the years on these machines that it was very easy to substitute obsoleted components just to use them up, or to make a quick repair....

#24: Post by **stefano65** » May 24th, 2012, 9:55 am

Francesco guideline is VERY VERY helpfully and
GRAZIE Francesco for such a great job,
the majority of machine are indeed built such as described,
however
after 13 years of machine repairs
I can tell you that there are always some bastardizations and changes made at the factories that sometimes made all the rules going off the wall,
up to 10 or so years ago, the US importer had a man which worked until retirement age with them, and knew every screw and bolt on every unit ever made, (or at least imported in the US)
some of that knowledge was passed on to the other tech guy, some retired with him,

so a good recommendation is always to check what your machine has BEFORE ordering replacement parts

June 30th, 2012, 12:44 pm

There is a question I have long had about the change in boiler design in the very early 1980s. No one seems to have made a post here that answered this question.

The pitch of the threads on the bottom was changed to coarser threads and the top of boiler was changed significantly by adding protruding "lips".

Does any one know if both of these boiler changes occurred at the same time. i.e. are there boilers with lips that have the earlier thread? (or there boilers without lips that have the later one?)

This is a significant question for anyone contemplating purchasing machines made in that era because the part that screws onto the base of the boilers is difficult to locate.

#26: Post by **jamerson** » October 8th, 2012, 10:02 am

I'm very very new to this game (it is a game, right?), and cannot decide the age of my newly bought Europiccolo.
It's stamped '91 at the bottom of the boiler, but what confuses me is the switch. It has only an on/off switch, no way to a third setting.

An image of the switch is here:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/200101/Europiccola/switch.jpg
And here one of the wiring:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/200101/Europiccola/wiring.jpg

Can you help me?

#27: Post by **kowalej** » October 8th, 2012, 11:08 am

I'm pretty sure 1990 and newer Euros have a pressurestat with a single switch, just like yours. That little black unit that is attached to the heating element with the copper pipe is the pressurestat. I believe the 2 mode heating element was meant as the temperature control mechanism before they put in pressurestats.

#28: Post by **jamerson** » October 8th, 2012, 1:04 pm

OK! Thanks. And sorry if that was obvious, very very new as I said

October 8th, 2012, 6:44 pm

Yes, yours looks like the 1990s Europiccola electrical setup. (The pressurestat on these also has a replaceable switch as it does on most of the La Pavoni levers produced until those produced fairly recently. If the switch fail, you may be able to find a micro switch without having to purchase the whole pressurestat.) 1991 seems reasonable for its production year. (But many machines seem to come from the factory with parts made at different times.)

This machine was made after a great positive change--the pressurestat--and before some really negative ones--the plastic piston and the plastic group liner. (They could have used decent material for the plastic and had a great positive change, but instead it was more trash plastic.)

#30: Post by **drgary** » October 8th, 2012, 9:39 pm

I was told my dual switch Europiccola was from the early 1990s. There are lots of those around. It isn't mentioned on the Ceccarelli website, which shows the dual position rocker switch but not the dual switch. There's a sticker underneath with the model and wattage but no serial number or date sticker. I bought it from a credible guy who said he was the original owner and got it at Zabar's in New York. I wonder if the parts were different on those machines than some that were sold by others? Maybe someone with a dual switch model has a date on their machine and can chime in. My machine also came with a manual. I found it -- and it has no date!