La Pavoni Europiccola temperature issue?

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Vc

#1: Post by Vc »

I have been pulling consistently good shots with my cremina and cimbali max grinder.
I purchased a new europiccola.

a few issues that I need to resolve with the europiccola:

1. the machine feels appropriately hot and the warning light shuts off after several minutes of turning on the machine
after 20 minutes of warming up, I bleed the false pressure and pull a shot using 15.5 gm of single origin Brazilian...shot runs for about 25 seconds and looks good but the coffee is not hot (only warm)

2. with the cremina I usually use a "fellini" technique
can I do the same with the europiccola? what volume of water is expected in the cup if I lift the lever for 5 or 6 seconds and pull straight (i.e., no fellini)

thank you

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crazy4espresso

#2: Post by crazy4espresso »

Hello,
Please take the time to use the search function on this forum. Here are some very useful threads that all La Pavoni users should read. I think we need to make these a sticky. Besides these there are dozens of other threads you can reference. Good luck

Reaching the Zen Zone with a Two Switch La Pavoni

Adding Thermometry to a La Pavoni Europiccola

Dalton's law (And problems from it)

Olympia Cremina Temperature Study, Part 1

La Pavoni Millennium Owners, Are Temperature Problems Solved?
Pressure profiling, flow profiling, and a new rule of thirds
Pavoni brew pressure gauge mod, observations
Positive pressure, PID Pavoni: world domination begins
"I would rather suffer with coffee than be senseless." — Napoleon Bonaparte
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rpavlis

#3: Post by rpavlis »

I presume this is a recently made new third generation Europiccola, post 2000. These groups are largely heated by having a plastic cylinder liner in which the piston moves. The space around the cylinder liner is filled with hot boiler water. (First generation Europiccolas are similar, except the liner is brass.)

After getting rid of air in the group by raising the handle momentarily and allowing a bit of water to escape through the bottom of the group head, you can proceed to the next step: You simply pump the handle up and down, but do not bring it up high enough to allow any more water to escape. This will bring hot water into and out of this space and heat up the group. The up stroke pushes water from the group back into the boiler where it gets reheated. The down stroke allows hot 116C or so degree water to come into the group to heat it. Do not do this too many times, usually two or three strokes of the handle are sufficient, at least with the first generation machines.

Unlike the second generation machines, steam does not constantly enter the space above the pistons and keep this area at boiler temperature by condensation of steam. Thus there are FAR less problems with over heating in both the first and third generation machines. But you do need to do things rather differently with first and third generation machines than second!

Edit: I forgot to mention the shot volume when the groups are properly bled and heated is about 35 mL or so, and about that many grams.

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homeburrero
Team HB

#4: Post by homeburrero »

Agree totally with Robert. I suspect you have coolish water in the group, even after 20 minutes. You can pull your shot soon after the green light first goes off* if you flush a bit of water, then give it a few pumps, waiting a few seconds between each of those pumps. You can do this with the empty PF in, then prep your shot and do the pull. You may want to put a temp strip on your group (get the 60C - 90C one) to help you decide when to stop pumping up the temperature. (See the thermometry link above if you want to get more sophisticated about group temp. It is a key factor.)
Vc wrote:2. with the cremina I usually use a "fellini" technique
can I do the same with the europiccola? what volume of water is expected in the cup if I lift the lever for 5 or 6 seconds and pull straight (i.e., no fellini)
Yes. The Millennium is less forceful on initial water delivery than the other Pavoni, and on mine with an up-to-temp group I get about 20-25g (talking weight rather than volume here, which is in many ways a better thing to measure) on a single pump. If my group is a little on the cool side, I generally get less. On a 15.5 g dose, getting a 23g shot might be your ideal - that's a 0.67 brew ratio. Your Fellini technique will work on the Pavoni and give you a little more volume.

*Edit addition - I maybe should say that it's wise to open the steam wand and bleed off some steam, and let the green light come on and go off again. A new machine should have an anti-vac valve, but some folks say the anti-vac is not completely effective in eliminating so-called false pressure.
Pat
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Vc (original poster)

#5: Post by Vc (original poster) »

machine is brand new....

I will roast coffee tonite and try your suggestions on Monday (this machine is in my office)

thank you

Vc (original poster)

#6: Post by Vc (original poster) »

did 2 or 3 lifts of the lever to warm the group...

also, I warmed the portafilter with near boiling water...

15.5 gm in 23 gm out for a ratio od 0.67

cream is good....but blonded a bit eary

I will adjust the grind as this is different single origin from last week...

Vc (original poster)

#7: Post by Vc (original poster) »

thank you

la pavoni is pulling consistently good shots with my cimbali max junior grinder...

cant wait till my hg one arrives...rice is ready and cremina is waiting...


not sure if this question warrants a new thread but I lubricate the cremina cylinder as needed by simply popping off the dispersion screen.

can the same be done with the new la pavoni?

what's appropriate maintenance?

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homeburrero
Team HB

#8: Post by homeburrero »

Vc wrote:la pavoni is pulling consistently good shots with my cimbali max junior grinder...
Good to hear that - congrats!
Vc wrote:not sure if this question warrants a new thread but I lubricate the cremina cylinder as needed by simply popping off the dispersion screen.
can the same be done with the new la pavoni?
what's appropriate maintenance?
Is probably a good idea to pop the screen every week or so just for cleaning. You can do it more or less frequently depending on how clean it looks when you remove it. With the screen out you could add a little seal lubricant to the inside of the plastic cylinder, but I don't and don't think it's necessary. I guess in theory it might extend seal life a little.

When doing the screen cleaning, you want to check the lube on the roller and pins, and you may want to completely empty and refill the boiler. (Some people advise doing that more often.) And of course clean and put a thin coat of seal lube on the group gasket.

Note that the seal/cylinder lube needs to be a food safe silicone seal lubricant (like Dow 111), but you don't use that on the roller and pins - for that use a high pressure bearing grease.
Pat
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Vc (original poster)

#9: Post by Vc (original poster) »

How do I pop the dispersion screen on the europiccola?
Does it snap on like a Cremina?

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homeburrero
Team HB

#10: Post by homeburrero »

It's just held in place by the group seal, which can hold it in pretty tight if it's been in there a long time. The first time you take it out you may need to remove the lever and piston rod stop nuts, then either rap the piston rod with a mallet, or invert the whole machine with the top of the rod on a block of wood and press down hard on the group bell, pushing the dispersion screen (and piston) out.

If it's not that stuck (which it shouldn't be if you're routinely removing it and lightly lubing the group gasket) you can unscrew the piston rod nuts and press down with the lever while prying the screen sides a little and it should come out fairly easily. Done this way the piston stays well inside the cylinder so you don't have to deal with getting that upper seal lip tucked back in.
Pat
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