Is Flair 58 a good end game espresso maker? - Page 5

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
Jonk
Posts: 2219
Joined: 4 years ago

#41: Post by Jonk »

A simple on and off would suffice, if they won't make a controller that remembers the desired setting.

What hefty portafilter? The one included with my unit weighs 248g including the wooden handle, pretty flimsy if you ask me. But yes, I think the comments I've read in the Brew with Flair group is mostly about the portafilter being at a different temperature after say 10 or 30 minutes. I mostly use mine directly after the beep with water off the boil and it sure seems consistent that way, at least when it comes to temperature.

LObin
Posts: 1831
Joined: 7 years ago

#42: Post by LObin replying to Jonk »

Sorry I didn't mean hefty for a 58mm portafilter. I just think Flair could've opted for a 58mm brass or even 49mm-54mm group which would've likely been easier to bring up to temp.
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TV33
Posts: 138
Joined: 6 years ago

#43: Post by TV33 »

I received the Flair 58+ and tested it. The pressure gauge doesn't work. The arm is slightly too far to the left. I've taken several shots, and I think it's not up to the level of the Robot. It's not the same, no worries on that side, it's just something different I was looking for, but I'm not convinced. I've read that some people think the Flair ritual is better than the Robot ritual. Well, I don't agree, although I'm always keen to try out new things. The thing is solid, but the Robot is more imposing. And I manage to have hotter coffees with the Robot too. Sorry, that sounds like a Robot owner breaking flair. It's not that, because don't put words in my mouth; it's a beautiful object. It's a forum on which I express my feelings. That's all there is to it. So yes, the non-functioning pressure gauge may induce a cognitive bias. But it's decided, I'm returning the equipment to the dealer (with this dealer you have 14 days to change your mind). I'm disappointed, I was enthusiastic and had sold a piece of equipment to buy it, especially as the Flair accepted my 1-cup IMS 8-10g basket.
:cry:

here in France the flair 58+, it's 769 euros.

Jonk
Posts: 2219
Joined: 4 years ago

#44: Post by Jonk »

TV33 wrote:The arm is slightly too far to the left.
This can be adjusted, as shown in this video @1:00
But yes, don't expect perfection with a Flair :!:
As much as I complain about it I'm still using it though :wink:

LObin
Posts: 1831
Joined: 7 years ago

#45: Post by LObin »

TV33 wrote:.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions and preferences. That's also what's beautiful about the mystical world of lever machines.

Not sure what you mean by the pressure gauge doesn't work though. It does work. I actually prefer the design and ease of reading pressure during a shot over the Cafelat Robot, which I previously owned.

Also don't want to nit-pick but the Cafelat Robot doesn't can't reach brew temperature as high as a well preheated Flair58. That's a fact. Lots of scace tests available on these two.

The Robot is still and excellent product. Definitely the prettiest and coolest hand lever out there, and more than capable of pulling amazing espresso.
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jpender
Posts: 3929
Joined: 12 years ago

#46: Post by jpender »

LObin wrote:Also don't want to nit-pick but the Cafelat Robot doesn't can't reach brew temperature as high as a well preheated Flair58. That's a fact. Lots of scace tests available on these two.
Is it a fact? I haven't seen a Flair 58 Scace test exceed 93°C. Is there one?

I haven't seen *any* Robot Scace tests.

LObin
Posts: 1831
Joined: 7 years ago

#47: Post by LObin replying to jpender »

They're out there. 93C is the max you can get out of the Flair58. Lance has done the same measurements on the Robot. I believe 90C was the max but I'd have to look at the video again.
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jpender
Posts: 3929
Joined: 12 years ago

#48: Post by jpender »

LObin wrote:They're out there. 93C is the max you can get out of the Flair58. Lance has done the same measurements on the Robot. I believe 90C was the max but I'd have to look at the video again.
I'd like to see one of those videos. I know Lance did a comparison of Robot, Flair 58, and Aram recently but I don't think he used a Scace.

As for the Robot maxing at 90°C that can't be right. It is nuanced since the Flair 58 can provide a steady temperature a lot more easily than a Robot which usually has a declining profile. I have some of my own measurements, including shots that never dropped below 92°C, but I used my own embedded probe, not a Scace. I'm fairly certain I could have gotten it hotter since I didn't heat the basket for those tests. But maybe a true Scace would report a lower temperature? I don't know.

Not that it matters really. The Flair 58 is clearly the winner when it comes to temperature stability.

Tillamook
Posts: 139
Joined: 3 years ago

#49: Post by Tillamook »

Its a good Pre-Game machine....

LObin
Posts: 1831
Joined: 7 years ago

#50: Post by LObin »

jpender wrote:I'd like to see one of those videos. I know Lance did a comparison of Robot, Flair 58, and Aram recently but I don't think he used a Scace.

As for the Robot maxing at 90°C that can't be right. It is nuanced since the Flair 58 can provide a steady temperature a lot more easily than a Robot which usually has a declining profile. I have some of my own measurements, including shots that never dropped below 92°C, but I used my own embedded probe, not a Scace. I'm fairly certain I could have gotten it hotter since I didn't heat the basket for those tests. But maybe a true Scace would report a lower temperature? I don't know.

Not that it matters really. The Flair 58 is clearly the winner when it comes to temperature stability.

I just rewatched Lance video (Aram-Robot-Flair58).
He reads a 90C peak temperature with normal preheating but says "you can probably get it up to 93 even 94" with lots of preheating (piston included).
My bad. I had my mind stock on the 90C peak comment.

Either way, l think we can agree that the Robot pulling warmer shots than the Flair58 is simply a false impression.
They "can" achieve very similar peak temperatures with the flair doing a small bump during the pull while the Robot has a more "classic" declining temp curve.
LMWDP #592