Is the Fellini move really advisable? (Europiccola) - Page 2

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AlanD

#11: Post by AlanD »

michaelbenis wrote:In my experience, Alan, something always manages to make its way behind the screen, but the Fellini move does increase this as you suspect - more so on some machines than others...
Yes, it does seem logical that Fellini moves would increase the matter behind the screen. The question then would be if it is in amounts appreciable enough to warrant periodic pain-in-tuchis showerscreen removal for cleanout? Is there an effective way to perform this cleanout without having to remove the shower-screen?

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michaelbenis

#12: Post by michaelbenis »

Alan whenever you clean the shower screen it's always dirtier on the INSIDE!

So, the answer is you can wipe the bottom and give it a quick flush by operating the lever when you have finished a run of shots, flushing through any small particles and coffee before it hardens on, but at some point you will have to flush a cleaner through the machine and/or take the screen out and clean it. I have no idea whether the Fellini really makes a big difference to the frequency with which that is required, although it is logical that it should make some difference.

I don;t actually clean my machines at regular intervals but more when I feel like it or have the time.

Cheers

Mike
LMWDP No. 237

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timo888

#13: Post by timo888 »

F.M. wrote:Hmmm. reminds me of a demo I got from a door-to-door vacuum saleperson! They were keen to demonstrate that a "vacuum" does nothing of the sort. :wink:

Well anyways- I've been experimenting with dosing down a bit, using the Vivace Vita roast and the single basket as a measuring device. I have to say it hasn't been the magic bullit I had hoped for....
First I tried dosing less, but same grind and packing pressure (20# now?) and short pre-infusion (:03) OK results but no real improvement and not great crema
Then I tried 1/2 step finer grind, again dosing less and same packing pressure, with a :10 second pre-infusion, this choked the machine a bit, but things were easy to get moving once I pushed through the initial resistance. Less crema, possibly over-extracted? Crema had that "cracked surface" appearance.

One thing that bothers me about dosing less, is there's no way to level the grounds before packing.

I'm thinking next I try a coarser grind & full dose? I may be over-extracting regardless of dose, due to grind.
The problem is not with the preinfusion, or the lesser dose, or the finer grind. It's the degree of compaction.

If you're choking the machine, try tamping very lightly. I mean 2-4 pounds -- barely more than the weight of the tamper and light finger pressure. Do not involve the biceps. (If you react to this suggestion as though it were anathema, you have been thoroughly indoctrinated, not informed. :wink: )

The coffee doesn't have to be "level" it has to be evenly distributed in the basket. You can chop the rim of the basket in a cross-hatch pattern (chop-chop-chop-chop) with the edge of a metal spoon to settle the grounds.

Also, on the choking early in the pull: when you first start to pull in earnest, are you giving a hard sudden pull down? Don't do that. Ease into the pull. Too much brew pressure can stall the flow.

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AlanD

#14: Post by AlanD »

michaelbenis wrote:Alan whenever you clean the shower screen it's always dirtier on the INSIDE!

So, the answer is you can wipe the bottom and give it a quick flush by operating the lever when you have finished a run of shots, flushing through any small particles and coffee before it hardens on, but at some point you will have to flush a cleaner through the machine and/or take the screen out and clean it. I have no idea whether the Fellini really makes a big difference to the frequency with which that is required, although it is logical that it should make some difference.
I apologize if I had been unclear --- I DID assume we were talking about the inside of the shower screen. In any case, what sort of cleaner do you flush through the machine? Thanks for your reply. (And thanks for not having wandered into a discussion of grind and tamp issues)

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F.M.

#15: Post by F.M. »

timo888 wrote: If you're choking the machine, try tamping very lightly. I mean 2-4 pounds -- barely more than the weight of the tamper and light finger pressure. Do not involve the biceps.
Yep, that ended up being the ticket! This mornings shots were awesome.

When people had previously suggested tamping lighter, I went from #30 to #20 and noticed no difference.
This AM I tamped with maybe #10 and got quite a bit more crema and no choking.
Maybe I'll experiment with even lighter tamping and finer grinds now. Already pretty fine (5-7 on my rocky with Vivace Vita).

Thanks for the tips!

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timo888

#16: Post by timo888 »

AlanD wrote:F.M wrote
Forgive me timo888, but I have even less idea what you're talking about. Can you elaborate?
You talked about the "liquid portion" of the puck being "displaced", and what I was trying to say is that inside the basket it can be a goopy inchoate Heraclitean mess, rather than a rigid lattice of coffee grounds through which a liquid is flowing. An upward suction, if gentle, would draw the goop upwards, but not necessarily fracturing anything, so that with renewed downward force the goop would settle again and the extraction could continue without channeling or other harm.

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michaelbenis

#17: Post by michaelbenis »

AlanD wrote:I apologize if I had been unclear --- I DID assume we were talking about the inside of the shower screen. In any case, what sort of cleaner do you flush through the machine? Thanks for your reply. (And thanks for not having wandered into a discussion of grind and tamp issues)
You can use vinegar (not coloured malt vinegar!), citric acid or the proprietary cleaner Cafiza.

And then of course rinse thoroughly! :D

Cheers

Mike
LMWDP No. 237

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AlanD

#18: Post by AlanD »

michaelbenis wrote:You can use vinegar (not coloured malt vinegar!), citric acid or the proprietary cleaner Cafiza.

And then of course rinse thoroughly! :D
Thank you michael :)

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AlanD

#19: Post by AlanD »

timo888 wrote:You talked about the "liquid portion" of the puck being "displaced", and what I was trying to say is that inside the basket it can be a goopy inchoate Heraclitean mess, rather than a rigid lattice of coffee grounds through which a liquid is flowing. An upward suction, if gentle, would draw the goop upwards, but not necessarily fracturing anything, so that with renewed downward force the goop would settle again and the extraction could continue without channeling or other harm.
Thanks for the explanation, timo. I apologize for not having been clearer in my previous posts. I was not all concerned about fractured pucks and subsequent channeling (although this is clearly something worth consideration). In fact it was your very image of a "goopy mess" being moved upward which concerned me --- wouldn't this upward moving goopy mess be strained through the shower screen resulting in messy deposits behind the screen and in the cylinder? I have no doubt that this action takes place with the Fellini move, but I'm now wondering if the amount of material ("goop", crud", or whatever you'd like to call it) deposited behind the screen is actually anything to worry about and which would warrant more frequent showerscreen removals and cleaning. I had originally referred to "pre-infused coffee" and "fines", but I do like your image of a "goopy mess" . . .