I continue to be torn on what machine to purchase, mostly because i just can't seem to find something i like in the sub $3000 price range (which seems ridiculous). Through my own results with my Infuser and lots of reading and discussions, 2 things seem clear: I really prefer light roasts, but i really hate sour shots. And for that i seem to need highly capable preinfusion. Recommendations have always gone to flow profiling E61, but something about fiddling with a little knob really bothers me. No one ever suggested a lever, but looking into them, I'm very intrigued. Looking at the Profitec 800, Bezzera Strega, Londinium Compressa.. I'm sure there are others.?

Something about these machines just sound right, and the advertised advantages - increased sweetness, reduced acidity, lots of control, very forgiving - seems ideal.

But they're also a bit confusing. I know they have immense control but i also know there's a lot of strange intricacies. How capable is the preinfusion? I think i understand you can go forever, but i also understand it may be at a set pressure depending on the machine.. maybe not enough or maybe too much? And maybe you run into heat issues depending as well? Some are at line pressure, some boiler, some have pumps.

It also seems the pressure profiling abilities are quite impressive, but it seems none of these machines have pressure gauges to really know where you're at?

In the end i want to be able to really excel with pulling low acidity light roasts, keeping things as simple as possible. I also make a decent amount of milk drinks. I think a lever might be the way to go, but i really want to better understand the pros and cons, especially compared to a Bianca for example.

Tried the Bianca and my Strietman just blew it away in shot quality. Always liked the Londinium very much and has superb shot quality. Strega is also nice but can't keep up with Strietman or Londinium. I almost exclusively use nordic roasts so really light.

Decent, you have total control. From preinfusion to flow, pressure control. I moved my thought from Bianca to Decent because Bianca's manual flow control can also be achieved with Decent.

Decent is obvious but especially with the base model discontinued I'm not interested. Plus it's just not the style I'm interested in, or overly great for milk drinks.

So i know the Decent will outperform a lever in terms of features, whether that matters or not though is really moot. I think the Bianca is the better comparison, most similar in features and price. With the Bianca you can control preinfusion pressure with the valve, you can cut it off for a true blooming shot, you've got pid for the grouphead itself. How well can you really control that on a lever? Or more importantly, how much does it matter?

Which Londinium? The Compressa seems to be pretty stripped down vs the higher end models.

You have quite a bit of control. I've had an 800 for many years and wouldn't go to anything else. With that being said it's not anywhere the Decent, the GS-3, or any of the variable control e-61's that have recently become popular.

With a spring lever;
You can pull the lever to a halfway and have "soft-preinfusion"

Pull the lever all the way down and let it sit there for how ever much time you want for a full fill of the group pre-infusion.

When lifting the lever, you can hold the lever and let it slowly spring back, you can let the lever go half way, and pull again.

I'm probably missing some of the other tricks.

I also have the Profitec Pro 800. It has been an excellent machine and I'm very happy with it. The preinfusion techniques I use the most are pulling and leaving the lever all the way down for preinfusion at, I believe, tank pressure (about 1 bar) and, once I release the lever, holding it at about 10:00 (I believe that preinfuses at about 3 bar although others with more knowledge can confirm). Preinfusion, the lever extraction profile, rock-solid reliability and ease of maintenance likely mean I'll be happy with this machine for a long time.

cgibsong002 wrote:...Through my own results with my Infuser and lots of reading and discussions, 2 things seem clear: I really prefer light roasts, but i really hate sour shots. And for that i seem to need highly capable preinfusion.

Maybe true if you dose triple (>18g) like many in the US do, but if you dose regular double (14g) and grind fine, I don't think you need a machine with special preinfusion capability. The problem for me with the Infuser is of temp consistency and lack of proper 14g baskets, which is why I moved on from the BBE (basically Infuser + grinder).

Hi C.J. I've had this same question as well, and as of now, I find the following most intriguing.

ACS is currently building a dual-boiler lever machine that is called the Vesuvius EVO Leva complete with a pressure gauge on the group head. It is still in the pre-order stages for Europe with some likely being shipped in the next couple of weeks. They plan on bringing it to the US market at some point. The conversation has been brought up here Potential new one group from ACS which will then take you here
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vesuviu ... html#p5010 then here
https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/55415- ... /#comments

There are some videos of a thrown-together prototype http://www.youtube.com/c/DaveCorbey/videos in which some of them speak of pre-infusion, but not much more extensively than it seems you might already have knowledge of.

Hope this is helpful.

erik82 wrote:Tried the Bianca and my Strietman just blew it away in shot quality. Always liked the Londinium very much and has superb shot quality. Strega is also nice but can't keep up with Strietman or Londinium. I almost exclusively use nordic roasts so really light.

Why would you say that is?