Flair 58 - Page 59

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
fred1968

#581: Post by fred1968 »

has anyone here tried aftermarket Tamper or leveller ?
I'm looking at the ones made by Pullman Big step tamper & the Pullman Chisel Distribution tool.
If I use these tamper and distribution tool by Pullman, do I need to change the baskets to the Pullman as well ?

Thanks for inputs.

boren

#582: Post by boren »

Why spend so much money on a tamper and distribution tool? Any basic self-leveling tamper and three-wave distributor would do an equally good job, for about a quarter of the price of the Pullman products.

With that said, I use a Force tamper that is even more expensive, but I received it as a gift so can't complain. I'm sure it doesn't tamp better than the $30 self-leveling tamper I used before. It is however more enjoyable to use because I can tamp quite lightly and still have no doubts about it being forceful enough. In comparison, with the basic tamper I had to tamp hard to know it's both strong enough and consistent. For those who suffer from "Barista Wrist RSI" this could be a good enough reason to consider buying the Force tamper. I can see no other reason to spend so much on a tamper (though it does make for a nice gift).

renatoa

#583: Post by renatoa »

Agree... puck preparing is a so overrated job...
All you need is to grind in a recipient that match your basket, a bit of shaking (but no stir ! :D) , then you can level with a second basket, if having a spare that fits perfectly into your actual basket. Lastly, you can even tamp with that basket. You can even tamp with that second basket, if shape allows.
WDT tools are just the modern snake oil of this hobby.

boren

#584: Post by boren »

That's not what I said. WDT tools only cost a few dollars, and if your grinder creates clumps they make a real difference. This can both be tasted and measured with a refractometer. I don't use a WDT tool with my Sette 270Wi because it produces completely clump-free coffee and using a leveler, followed by a self-leveling tamper is a sufficient and easy to use flow. I do use such a WDT occasionally with my manual grinders, especially if I notice clumps.

Puck-prep in general is very important with pump machines that quickly blast the ground coffee with 9 bars of pressure, and even more so with machines that have limited or no pre-infusion. However with a manual lever machine, like the Flair 58, one could be a bit less strict about puck-prep, because it's very easy to start with a gentle and extended pre-infusion that can alleviate some puck-prep imperfections.

And I would definitely use a self-leveling tamper over a basic tamper, let alone another basket (first time I hear this proposal). Such tampers simplify the process and ensure that the coffee bed is not slanted. A level coffee bed vs one that's slanted is another aspect that can both be tasted and measured.

fred1968

#585: Post by fred1968 »

Thanks for this info much appreciates sir.

DamianWarS
Supporter ♡

#586: Post by DamianWarS »

boren wrote:Why spend so much money on a tamper and distribution tool? Any basic self-leveling tamper and three-wave distributor would do an equally good job, for about a quarter of the price of the Pullman products.

With that said, I use a Force tamper that is even more expensive, but I received it as a gift so can't complain. I'm sure it doesn't tamp better than the $30 self-leveling tamper I used before. It is however more enjoyable to use because I can tamp quite lightly and still have no doubts about it being forceful enough. In comparison, with the basic tamper I had to tamp hard to know it's both strong enough and consistent. For those who suffer from "Barista Wrist RSI" this could be a good enough reason to consider buying the Force tamper. I can see no other reason to spend so much on a tamper (though it does make for a nice gift).
That $30 self leveling tamper and under $10 WDT tool is a basic set up I would recommend anyone.
Getting more advanced would be using puck screens (unbranded ones under $10) and paper cut outs to fit the bottom. None of which is expensive.

DamianWarS
Supporter ♡

#587: Post by DamianWarS »

boren wrote:That's not what I said. WDT tools only cost a few dollars, and if your grinder creates clumps they make a real difference. This can both be tasted and measured with a refractometer. I don't use a WDT tool with my Sette 270Wi because it produces completely clump-free coffee and using a leveler, followed by a self-leveling tamper is a sufficient and easy to use flow. I do use such a WDT occasionally with my manual grinders, especially if I notice clumps.

Puck-prep in general is very important with pump machines that quickly blast the ground coffee with 9 bars of pressure, and even more so with machines that have limited or no pre-infusion. However with a manual lever machine, like the Flair 58, one could be a bit less strict about puck-prep, because it's very easy to start with a gentle and extended pre-infusion that can alleviate some puck-prep imperfections.

And I would definitely use a self-leveling tamper over a basic tamper, let alone another basket (first time I hear this proposal). Such tampers simplify the process and ensure that the coffee bed is not slanted. A level coffee bed vs one that's slanted is another aspect that can both be tasted and measured.
Clumps or not, leveling a mound of coffee the likes a sette makes can have density differences in the puck. WDT isnt just for clumps it makes the entire puck as consistent as possible.

boren

#588: Post by boren »

From my experience, WDT at best brings zero improvement to coffee ground with the Sette. To me it's a complete waste of time, but if people enjoy massaging the coffee, all the power to them. They might not make things worse if they do it right.

And this comes from someone who does WDT with manually ground coffee, so it's not like I'm against the concept.

MCal2003

#589: Post by MCal2003 »

Getting HOT here. & Literally. Even shoreside the air temps broke the 90F mark. Rare event.

WDT has long been an accepted process that MAY improve the quality of distribution. For some grinders. A must. Tampers.... Base profiles, devices, and whatever.... Personally just a leveling tamp after WDT has yielded a quality pull at higher rate vs. no WDT. JMHO, all these tamp &leveling tools are not needed with a decent grinder and the 58. Sort of cringe at the collection of tampers accumulated over the past almost decades of pulling shots. From "junky" to "name brand" (Ergo, RBs).

Bottomline. Whatever works for you in pulling the shots you like on the 58. Go for it.

Mano dell'operatore>Macinadosatore>Miscela>Macchina Espresso
LMWDP #151

DamianWarS
Supporter ♡

#590: Post by DamianWarS »

boren wrote:From my experience, WDT at best brings zero improvement to coffee ground with the Sette. To me it's a complete waste of time, but if people enjoy massaging the coffee, all the power to them. They might not make things worse if they do it right.

And this comes from someone who does WDT with manually ground coffee, so it's not like I'm against the concept.
Even with the fluffyest grounds you can still get density differences in the puck. WDT doesn't just get rid of the clumps it evens the bed of coffee so it's all the same.