Flair 58 - Page 55

#541: Post by **rbh1515** » May 25th, 2022, 9:17 am

In my experience, as fast as you can go!

#542: Post by **renatoa** » May 25th, 2022, 9:28 am

Puck prep could be the same, if you compare with a 58 machine.
But refilling the Flair take some seconds, while a lever is ready as soon as the lever is in the start position...
I don't count the refill and stabilize of the lever machine, for some open boiler models you can refill the boiler while the spring does its job...

#543: Post by **Jonk** » May 25th, 2022, 10:33 am

It looks like people have a habit of pushing the surplus water through the puck at the end of shots. If that's mandatory, perhaps add a minute to a regular open boiler per shot? Some other things like fixing the puck screen and refilling included.

Compared to some machines that need temperature surfing, flushing or pre-heating - I'm guessing it's no slouch, just not the fastest possible.

#544: Post by **boren** » May 25th, 2022, 10:48 am

Thank you both for the comments. I guess that when pulling espresso there won't be a huge difference compared to a boiler-based machine, because there's little the user can do in the meanwhile. There'll be more of a difference if one is using another machine steam wand to steam milk, as this is more difficult to pull (pun not intended) when pulling the lever on the Flair.

#545: Post by **MCal2003** » May 25th, 2022, 12:03 pm

Compared to the MCal . About the same. Compared to the PVL2. Slower. PVL2 is a two lever machine. You can alternate pulls as fast as you can dose, grind, load and pull. No portafilter pressure relief valve on either of those lever spring lever machines. Just need to let the pressure dissipate. Or experience a portafilter sneeze and mess.

Find the Flair work flow smooth and efficient for personal use. Steady flow of dose, grind, pull and drink. Repeat....Probably not so if you had a line of people wanting a shot.

#546: Post by **JBroida** » May 25th, 2022, 11:05 pm

I made like 4 back to back shots today at work... maybe 3-5 minutes per shot... not rushing at all. Just weigh out beans, RDT, grind, put into portafilter, WDT, tamp, lock in portafilter. Maybe 15 second preinfusion, 30 second shot, flush extra water, knock out puck, wipe clean, repeat. Compared to the flair pro 2 i was using before, infinitely easier and faster.

#547: Post by **boren** » May 26th, 2022, 1:59 am

@JBroida - 3-5 minues is not that short compared to what I'm getting with my Flair Classic, but I assume there may be a difference in grinding-related tasks. I use a Sette 270Wi grinder. It's a speed demon and doesn't require WDT or RDT, and when doing back-to-back shots (e.g. when hosting) I load it with enough beans to not have to bother with weighing each shot myself (the grinder has automatic weighing).

In any case, I ordered the Flair 58 and will soon be able to share my first hand experience with it, including back-to-back shots. I can't wait to get it

#548: Post by **renatoa** » May 26th, 2022, 7:15 am

Indeed, for me too is under three minutes with Classic, and manual grinding.
The official Classic/Pro/2 preheating workflow published by flair, with hot water, in not the most optimal, imo.
Using steam for preheat, source of steam being a moka pot, lower half, group placed on top of the funnel.
This is the very first step of the 3 minutes flow, I means starting group steaming, then follows firing the hot water kettle, coffee weigh and grinding, puck prepare, and we already have one minute of group steaming, much more effective than 10 minutes of hot water bath.

#549: Post by **JBroida** » May 26th, 2022, 11:16 pm

True... I have a steam setup for preheating my flair pro 2... it's much faster and better

#550: Post by **JBroida** » May 26th, 2022, 11:19 pm

Wasn't rushing... just taking time working at a leisurely pace. Can go much faster. The point was that even when not trying, it's not that slow. Today I made a few and if I work quickly it's easily under 3 minutes with back to back.