Flair 58 - Page 51

A haven dedicated to manual espresso machine aficionados.
Gargamel40

#501: Post by Gargamel40 »

I've checked many reviews of Cafelat Robot and Flair58.

I love Flair design, work flow and 58mm portafilter option (accessories). If i understand it right it can pull multiple shots one by one also. I would pair it with good hand grinder or automatic (Baratza Sette 270wi).

What about the shot quality and taste between Flair58 and Robot? Most reviews give them high praise, some say Flair is clearer and Robot is a bit more textured. Now I like texture. I'm used to automatic coffee machines and i get no real texture at all except some crema, so that is the first thing i notice in a good caffee.

Does Flair produce enough texture? Could i get more texture by using better baskets (IMS,...) then stock, apply different brewing technic, etc.? Or should i go with Robot (i really don't like it's workflow, portafilter system,...)?

K7

#502: Post by K7 » replying to Gargamel40 »

Both are capable of making top-class espresso. Based on my experience with both, I think you should have no problem getting texture with either one. Coffee type, grind size, basket, dose, pull ratio, extraction time...they all play a part, I think. Some say grinder type (conical vs flat) is a big factor also.

In the end, Flair 58 offers a wider range of shot possibilities due to its built-in heater and 58mm basket options. Basically, anything Robot can do, Flair 58 can do. Not quite so the other way around though. So the Flair has an edge overall. As it should since it's more expensive. Bigger edge if you like to brew hot. Preheating Robot gets you close, but in my experience, you still end up not quite as hot and with declining temp profile (unless you go uber crazy with preheating method, ask @jpender for how :) ) while the 58 let you to choose either flat or declining profile as you wish. But perhaps I'm not being fair to Robot because my preheat routine was likely not as good as it could have been. I actually prefer Robot's look but oh well.

malling

#503: Post by malling »

Gargamel40 wrote:I've checked many reviews of Cafelat Robot and Flair58.

I love Flair design, work flow and 58mm portafilter option (accessories). If i understand it right it can pull multiple shots one by one also. I would pair it with good hand grinder or automatic (Baratza Sette 270wi).

What about the shot quality and taste between Flair58 and Robot? Most reviews give them high praise, some say Flair is clearer and Robot is a bit more textured. Now I like texture. I'm used to automatic coffee machines and i get no real texture at all except some crema, so that is the first thing i notice in a good caffee.

Does Flair produce enough texture? Could i get more texture by using better baskets (IMS,...) then stock, apply different brewing technic, etc.? Or should i go with Robot (i really don't like it's workflow, portafilter system,...)?
No experience with the Robot, but you can play allot with the Flair58 both in terms of temp profiles as well as pressure profile, so the outcome is really dependent on what you do and not at least what grinder you pair it with. All in all you can both get textured as well as clarity shot from it and the shot are really hard to mess up, it just deliver excellent espresso imho.

HeadHop

#504: Post by HeadHop »

Hello, I've just received my brand new Flair 58 !
Nevertheless it seems that the puck screen is not totally flat, did you experienced that as well ?
And do you know in which material it is built ? Stainless steel?
It also makes a loud beeping noise when plugged in, any idea ?

malling

#505: Post by malling » replying to HeadHop »

If your on facebook there is a user group, most are active there.

The beep is normal. I'm not surprised that the screen is a little bend, this isn't really not uncommon to see on espresso machines. fortunately these are cheap to replace, both Normcore, Bplus make them and you can find cheaper on Etzy basically same quality. But try showing it to flair they might be willingly to replace it.

Rabh

#506: Post by Rabh »

I'm currently rocking a Cafelat Robot (paired with a conical Helor 106 hand grinder), and whilst I love the brews I get, I've got a bit of "is the grass greener on the other side" syndrome. I've been giving some serious thought to the Flair 58, though I had one question. I currently go with 13g of coffee in, 26g out. The ability to use vst/ims baskets on the Flair 58 really appeals, bearing in mind I don't have the ability to change the portafilter on the Robot.

Is anybody else using such a low dosage of 12g to 13g? As far as I know most people tend to go for the 18g to 20g range, and I couldn't see any reviews mentioning how it fares with a much lower dosage.

Thanks in advance.

renatoa

#507: Post by renatoa »

I am amazed you can use such low quantity of grounds on you Robot, which is also a 58 mm machine.
On our local forums the Robot users complains about "at least 16 grams needed" to get a satisfactory extraction.
This is probably because you don't have a real pressure monitoring, so my guess you are extracting at 3-4 bars, at most.
It is impossible to extract at 6 bars, with a flat bottom basket as is in Robot, the coffee bed is simply too thin to obtain this pressure.
Tried a lot of conical baskets to be able to obtain a satisfactory extraction on a 58 machine, using less than 15 grams, and finally abandoned.
None of them can't match what I get from 14.4 grams extracted on a Flair Signature at 6-7 real bars.
So, if you want to try a Flair with little coffee, look at Signature line, not even Pro, and forget 58 !

jpender

#508: Post by jpender »

renatoa wrote:It is impossible to extract at 6 bars, with a flat bottom basket as is in Robot, the coffee bed is simply too thin to obtain this pressure.
I was easily able to choke my Robot with a 10g dose. And I pulled several tasty shots with only 10g of grounds. The pressure was in excess of 6 bar.

One issue with the Robot basket is that because it tapers you can't use the stock tamper with a small dose. You need a smaller tamper.

I don't know about the Flair 58. But why wouldn't it work?

renatoa

#509: Post by renatoa »

I can't imagine how this could be achieved without a grind excessively fine... so a bitter extraction.

The best results I had with a 58 extraction was with the right side, the smaller, conical in this picture:
userpix/6609_mini_gaggia_015__custom_.jpg

The minimum quantity for tamping down to conical section is 12.8 grams, the maximum is 14 grams, when the coffee touch the shower screen.

Still disappointing extraction compared with a 49mm Pavoni and same quantity. Even physical measurements shows the extraction is incomplete.
I can't figure why same basket mounted in a Flair 58 should perform otherwise than in a Gaggia.

jpender

#510: Post by jpender »

No, not bitter. I pulled eight shots and two went into the sink. The other six were drinkable, not the best shots, but decent, enjoyable.

I usually use 16 or 18g. I only tried 10g because my imagination is often limited.