vit wrote:You mean Cafflano Kompresso ? Maximum I got from it was about 25ml in the cup (by pouring water well above 60 ml mark, somewhere around 68 ml which seems to be the maximum where water doesn't overflow when starting the extraction) with original shower screen and about 32 ml without the shower screen. Not really a "machine" for lungos ...

The new flair 58 update (with no shower screen) is wrong, and has removed parts that are integral for water distribution. They r seeing how far they can strip making espresso down to a plunger over a mesh puck... so sad

Is anyone else feeling ripped off a lil bit here? For $600 shouldn't you get a mechanism more closer to a Real Prosumer espresso machine with shower screen and possibly something that makes a more frictionless contact with the cylinder?

Hell I could just figure out the sq inches of a 58mm Porta filter, make a 3d printed cylinder and plunger cut-out to go over it, and just use a dumbell weight to reach 9psi. Some math will be involved but u get what I mean.. $600 is a lot the flair 58

Well, I certainly agree that 600 $/€ is quite an amount of money for this kind of machine. However, have in mind that these are made in small series because there are no many potential users. People just like to press the button. So the price is higher than in mass production

Anyway, shower screen is better for commercial machines, because it simplifies the workflow. Puck screen certainly wouldn't be practical for barista making 1 espresso per minute for several hours. For most home users, not a big deal ... disadvantages on water distribution I don't see as long as it is made without bigger gaps between the edge of puck screen and the basket wall

Edited, wrong quote

Pndave19 wrote: Now with the new updated models, the user pours in the water at the rest position (Handle is down) then raises the arm, allowing the water to be pulled below From the edges before being pressed through the espresso puck.

Confused... you put the portafilter on the flair, you pour the water above the piston, then you pull the handle up to move the water below the piston? How does the water get past the gasket?

The new piston model has inside a valve.
Pulling the handle up opens the valve, and water pass.

Thanks renatoa!

Pndave19 wrote: The new flair 58 update (with no shower screen) is wrong, and has removed parts that are integral for water distribution. They r seeing how far they can strip making espresso down to a plunger over a mesh puck... so sad

Is anyone else feeling ripped off a lil bit here? For $600 shouldn't you get a mechanism more closer to a Real Prosumer espresso machine with shower screen and possibly something that makes a more frictionless contact with the cylinder?

Hell I could just figure out the sq inches of a 58mm Porta filter, make a 3d printed cylinder and plunger cut-out to go over it, and just use a dumbell weight to reach 9psi. Some math will be involved but u get what I mean.. $600 is a lot the flair 58

It's not essential, there are several home lever machines that don't have a shower screen. The shower screen is mostly there of practical reasons and mean you can have a fast work flow a puck screen would be very impractical. Anyone who owned more then one machine would know that the flow from the shower screen and the dispersion block that often sits behind it, is often very poor and most would greatly benefit from a puck screen of said reason, I tried removing said screen and replaced with puck screen and just use the dispersion block and it was often better.

The diameter often doesn't correspond to the basket this isn't just a Flair58 thing, I also believe the Decent is noticeable smaller, last I saw one.

Also these showerscreen and dispersion is not without issues, it requires to be backflushed and removed and cleaned as the holes will clog and give a even worse water distribution.

Pndave19 wrote: The new flair 58 update (with no shower screen) is wrong, and has removed parts that are integral for water distribution. They r seeing how far they can strip making espresso down to a plunger over a mesh puck... so sad

Is anyone else feeling ripped off a lil bit here? For $600 shouldn't you get a mechanism more closer to a Real Prosumer espresso machine with shower screen and possibly something that makes a more frictionless contact with the cylinder?

Hell I could just figure out the sq inches of a 58mm Porta filter, make a 3d printed cylinder and plunger cut-out to go over it, and just use a dumbell weight to reach 9psi. Some math will be involved but u get what I mean.. $600 is a lot the flair 58

Armchair manufacturing and business is always easy.

There was some earlier discussion of engineering and manufacturing choices that brought up interesting points. They seem to be ones that prospective buyers may wish to evaluate and take into consideration.

However, the discussion seems to be drifting away from being productive and enlightening.

While on "cooldown", please take a bit of time to consider how further discussion can be done in a way that is meaningful for the range of readers.

Guidelines for productive online discussion

Just a thought with the 58 now being able to hold water with an empty porta filter, how hard would it be to have the cylinder be a open "boiler". And how long would it take to heat such a small amount of water?

Just thinking, they already have the heated cylinder, water sitting on top of the piston, how much more power would it need heat the water too? Pour in your water, turn it on, warm it all up together, grind coffee, pull shot?

I plan to do such mod for a friend next month, using a cartridge combo heater-thermocouple in same sleeve, mounted of piston shaft, and PID'ed.
Will keep you updated with the success/failure of the solution.

Physics tell that 100ml of water in a lossless closed boiler would boil in less than 3 minutes, using a 250W heater, as I plan.
In real world, if it takes less than 5 minutes, I am ok. Using already boiled water surely would help and make things go faster, obviously.