Flair 58 - Page 34

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cleftofvenus

#331: Post by cleftofvenus »

I get why it needs to be a bit loose but mine just seems excessive. I'm at a loss on how I'm getting zero pressure buildup if this isn't it. There's gotta be a leak somewhere, everything dripped out the first time with just the piston put in place, I hadn't even touched the handle yet. Grind and tamping weren't anything out of the ordinary, but I really didn't get an improvement when grinding extremely fine.

Edit: just for reference, I'm using a Comandante C40 with Red Clix at 15 clicks, so think 7.5 with the stock C40 adjuster. Medium roast.

cleftofvenus

#332: Post by cleftofvenus »

My frustration with the unit was premature, but arose because I've never read before that old coffee may simply never allow it to get up to pressure. I was prepared for it to taste bad but was at least hoping to get the mechanics down. Coffee was older than I thought at 60 days. New coffee on the way, so still can't make up my mind yet on if I'll get drinkable espresso but I'm hopeful!

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yakster
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#333: Post by yakster »

Don't feel bad, this is a very common reason that people come to this site and start new threads when they first start trying espresso and can't build up any pressure behind the coffee puck. It's a learning experience and home espresso is still not popular enough for this to become common knowledge.

I look forward to hearing your experiences with the Flair 58. I love my Robot and I don't see myself switching to the Flair 58 but from what I've seen it could end up being a great espresso machine.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272

vit

#334: Post by vit »

Bad plunger or piston seal would result in water ending in the cylinder above the piston after the pull and not in the cup

DamianWarS
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#335: Post by DamianWarS »

cleftofvenus wrote:I get why it needs to be a bit loose but mine just seems excessive. I'm at a loss on how I'm getting zero pressure buildup if this isn't it. There's gotta be a leak somewhere, everything dripped out the first time with just the piston put in place, I hadn't even touched the handle yet. Grind and tamping weren't anything out of the ordinary, but I really didn't get an improvement when grinding extremely fine.

Edit: just for reference, I'm using a Comandante C40 with Red Clix at 15 clicks, so think 7.5 with the stock C40 adjuster. Medium roast.
cleftofvenus wrote:My frustration with the unit was premature, but arose because I've never read before that old coffee may simply never allow it to get up to pressure. I was prepared for it to taste bad but was at least hoping to get the mechanics down. Coffee was older than I thought at 60 days. New coffee on the way, so still can't make up my mind yet on if I'll get drinkable espresso but I'm hopeful!
old coffee will have depicted Co2. Co2 acts as backpressure and as you apply a downward force the reaction of the Co2 applies an upward force which increases the overall pressure. if there is no Co2 there is no backpressure and it is going to compromise your pressure and you'll have to grind finer to levels that probably become impractical. if you're not even pulling the lever and everything is just dripping out there is no pressure and the coffee doesn't have enough resistence.

buy fresh coffee and use only freshly ground to take advantage of that Co2 in the coffee as best as possible. Often espresso coffee has a resting period from its roast date which can be 1-2 weeks. you can talk to the roaster about that resting period and they should be able to help you out although because the Flair58 is a trending espresso lever right now and fairly inexpensive the roaster might actually have one and be able to give you some tips for best use with their coffee.

broadly speaking to increase the puck resistance (assuming you have fresh coffee) grinding finer is usually what you do but if your dose is too low this could be a factor as well. the basket that comes with the flair58 is an 18gr basket and flair says you can it has a range of 16-20gr so dose within that range and if you're at the lower end dose up. of course, standard things like tamping and puck prep are needed. make sure you are using a dry portafilter and don't knock the portafilter or too aggressively put it in the flair58 after it's been tamped otherwise it may break the seal. if you wanted to test the pressure of the device and were able to get something like a blind basket (a basket without any holes) it would max out the pressure and it should be sufficent to test if the gauge/seals are working. you can buy blind baskets for $5 or less or just borrow one from someone who has one. but the flair isn't deisgned for blind baskets and the pressure will have no where to go so don't pull too hard otherwise you will damange something but just enough to confirm the gauge/seals are working.

vit

#336: Post by vit »

Achieving 9bar (or whatever) on blind basket or on ordinary basket with coffee isn't any different - same force needed on the lever ... I suppose nobody will go for 20 bar just to test the seals (with whether blind basket or ordinary one) and break something ...

malling

#337: Post by malling »

I just cancelled mine as the new regulations apparently means that getting the flair to Europe will be to costly compared to what you will eventually be able to get it for at a reseller. Give me time to rethink if this is the one and let everyone else be guinea pigs.

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DamianWarS
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#338: Post by DamianWarS »

vit wrote:Achieving 9bar (or whatever) on blind basket or on ordinary basket with coffee isn't any different - same force needed on the lever ... I suppose nobody will go for 20 bar just to test the seals (with whether blind basket or ordinary one) and break something ...
the same force is needed but the pressure doesn't go anywhere with a blind basket on the flair58 so you may be tempted to keep pushing and eventually something is going to give. you can build pressure with coffee of course but if you think your gauge is faulty testing it with something you know has resistance may be effective if you don't have that sort of experience or confidence in your grind to know what pressure it should put up. The user in question thought there was something wrong with the gauge/seals because water would just drip out before they even pulled the lever. It sounds like a grind problem to me but they lacked the confidence in the grind so using something with a guaranteed resistance would help ensure the machine is working (or not whatever the case may be). you don't even need to go to 9 bar just test to see if there is resistance and no obvious leaks, hold it in place and see if the pressure goes down or stays. There's no real need to keep a blind basket on hand and I doubt Flair wants you to use one but if someone was concerned about a gauge or seal problem this would help to determine if those are working.

tarzan_monkeyman

#339: Post by tarzan_monkeyman »

Just wanted to give a quick update after 2 days of use. Everything is great so far, I'm very happy with the workflow and quality of espresso I'm getting. I'm using a lighter roasted coffee right now and have the temp. setting at the highest level. Was trying some longer preinfusions (45s) and I feel like I wasn't getting much temperature loss.

As far as my wet puck issue, it was indeed user error. When you finish the shot you need to lift the lever up to incorporate some air into the system (I would just immediately switch cups), and when you purge the rest of the water you will hear air hissing out when you are done. My pucks came out completely dry after that. You can also just push the brew chamber down to adjust volume of water you want in if you want less waste, I have it maybe 3/4 of the way up for a 40g shot.

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sosha
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#340: Post by sosha »

Mine arrived a few days ago, and I just got around to unboxing it.

It seems VERY substantial and solid. The wooden handle on the portafilter matches the lever handle; that's a nice touch. It larger than I imagined, but hardly overwhelming. I took a crack at pulling a shot, only to realize I'll have to dial in the grinder and read the instructions (ie: how much water goes into the chamber). The little gusher reminded me that a Friday evening after a long work week demands more mindless endeavors. :D

More tomorrow.........
LMWDP #440