sure, but i have a rok at the moment and apart from the portafilter locking ring, there is no excessive stress on the metal parts. Certainly no flexing or bending of metal parts. I'm thinking that the robot also has less problems with regards to flex. So I'm a bit concerned that this is just taken as a given for the flair.

With a long and huge lever arm I just cannot see how you can completely avoid it, it is allot of force in one direction, with all the machines that has a long lever arm I have seen this, the smaller home levers I owned also had flex and bending... so I'm not really surprised too see it, but as I'm not going to pull more then a couple a shots a day I'm not overly concerned.

Exactly, the Robot doesn't flex thanks to having opposing levers just like the ROK. You have to be a little bit careful how you apply force or it will wobble slightly in the other axis.

I have seen pictures of the regular Flair snapped right off, so there might be some cause for concern - other than the unsatisfactory feeling.

With any of these machines it's prudent to aim for a bit lower pressure in any case. The ROK have had issues with the levers breaking.

For the 58 I thought it was more of the joint having a slight play rather than individual metal parts bending. The Robot also has a similar "issue" with the legs--they can tilt backward just a tad if I lean on the levers not completely vertically so I end up with a somewhat off-center stream.

Short of having a support come off the front of the chamber mount, I don't see it being avoided, but then that would likely interfere with the basket handle. It is something that could be done with the other models however. I can't say I ever noticed the flex in my pro2 until I got a taller glass that just fit on my scale with the drip tray, I noticed the numbers shooting up when only half the shot was pulled, now I'm very aware of the flex, but can't say it concerns me any.

Jonk wrote:Exactly, the Robot doesn't flex thanks to having opposing levers just like the ROK. You have to be a little bit careful how you apply force or it will wobble slightly in the other axis.

I have seen pictures of the regular Flair snapped right off, so there might be some cause for concern - other than the unsatisfactory feeling.

With any of these machines it's prudent to aim for a bit lower pressure in any case. The ROK have had issues with the levers breaking.

metal fatigue can happen on every type of machine, groups can break, parts inside can get fatigue and break and require either parts replacement or an entire new group. Replacement that can set you back as much as a Flair58. Boilers can explode and make havoc, pipes can burst or leak and flood your kitchen (or wherever you might have it) causing very expensive repairs to your room. But how often dos it happen, one off should not scare you off, it happens and I'm sure flair would take care of it if it ever happens.

It appears there is substantially less metal between the vertical lever support and the base of the Flair 58 versus their other models. Surely they have good reason...but from a casual ME point of view the 58's design in this area appears to exacerbate the issue (and conceivably be a stress riser to the point of it being a potential problem downstream).

Flair warranty for the 58 stand is 10 years.

K7 wrote:For the 58 I thought it was more of the joint having a slight play rather than individual metal parts bending. The Robot also has a similar "issue" with the legs--they can tilt backward just a tad if I lean on the levers not completely vertically so I end up with a somewhat off-center stream.

Assuming the base screws are snug, that is the silicone gasket on the bottom of the base squashing, not any metal bending. I would be extremely surprised if anyone ever managed to bend any part of the machine through normal use.

So far in 3 years the only part that has ever required replacing is the plastic tube, maybe a dozen gauges and 2 portafilters - as I had overpolished the ears.

The response to all the above fatigue concerns is a screw based pushing system, instead lever. Like Aram or Rota.
The effort is much smaller, and also the control resolution, one complete turn of the screw equate to 1-2 mm of piston movement = 1-2 cm of lever pushing.
Another plus, whose advantages can't be figured until you don't operate such machine, is that you can stop extraction any moment, and leave the machine as is, for some seconds. Good for emergencies, a phone call, or a kid that needs immediate attention... With a lever you can have surprises if doing such thing...