Make it into Pavoni size/system and I'll buy two !
Beating the dead 58 mm horse again is a non-sense, imo...

What'd it die of?

Bluenoser wrote:You read stuff on the Decent and you see one of the most popular profiles is the Londinium.. so basically the Decent is imitating a lever.. After living with the maintenance of a pump machine for 3 years.. I am surprised most people don't just get a good manual and prepare milk by some of the popular alternative ways. So much more affordable.. I have not much difference in quality.

I'd take a Londinium shot over a Flair any day.

I wonder if this will be improved on the final version of the 58. seems like a easy point of damage

malling wrote:Different beast for different things, a Londinium is also many times more expensive, take up allot more counter space, this has never been and never will be an alternative to a full blown lever group machine.

to the point of the Londinium profile being popular on a decent if people are chasing these lever profiles this begs the question can the flair deliver? because if we're going to anecdotally claim Decent users perfer the Londinium profile thus "levers are better" to justify a flair58 does that mean the flair58 can tap into this preimium profile target that's so sought after? I don't know but as you said "Different beast for different things" so what's the "thing" for the flair?

DamianWarS wrote:I'd take a Londinium shot over a Flair any day.

Grin.. really? That's what you get from that.. ? If $5271 = $529 .. I'd agree... I did a follow-up reply to comment you quoted. The quality I was comparing was my manual lever (Robot) to a Pro500 HX PID machine; using the popularity of Decent's londinium profile as grounds for a lever to give a highly valued extraction by users. The comment had to do with value, ease of maintenance and quality of extraction of recent manuals (Robot & Flair)

DamianWarS wrote:I'd take a Londinium shot over a Flair any day.

malling wrote:this has never been and never will be an alternative to a full blown lever group machine.

OK, I'll bite. What are the advantages Londinium or other full blown lever group machines have over the Flair 58?

Of course. But DamianWarS was talking about shot quality. So I thought your reply to his statement was also about that.